Ask the Transperson

[it]

Originally Posted by Pamela

I am MtF trans.

Your question is both simple and complex.
I have no idea what the fuss is about. Gender is a fundamental concept to everyone's identity and humanity. Personally, I go for the traditional gender binary, that is, male and female. I do not go for any of the "in-betweens", which upsets a lot of LGBTs I cannot honestly say that I have met anyone who holds that their gender is not part of their identity. Other than the aforementioned "tweens".

I suspect that some people just want to play "me too". There is more to the discussion in question than simply rights or identity. These views of mine have made me something of a pariah in our social circles but I believe that we are being used by some to advance a radical social agenda which seeks to deconstruct every tradition and foundation upon which the US was built.

I have not read much about this argument because I tend to avoid feminists' circles, where I and my sisters have been made to feel unwelcome, mainly by TERFs, an ultra-radical subset of feminist.

I hope I answered your question.

No but it's ok, you've also given good reasons why you can't (in bold). I am essentially asking you for your opinion of a type of person you probably haven't gotten the chance to get to know yet, so there's not much you can do about that.

Or you can answer with "Did you see that game?" and "Oh man" and "close call" <- almost always works for me when people ask me for my opinions about groups of people I don't know.

Originally Posted by DanaC

The gender is purely 100% conditioning argument just doesn't hold up at all. The idea that how we express, understand and respond to gender may be very much learned and conditioned is more compelling to me.

I do not believe that girls are biologically driven to like pink dresses and wear high heeled shoes. But I do think little girls are biologically driven to want to know how to be a girl and if the answer they see around them is that girls like pink dresses and high heeled shoes then they are very likely to start wanting those things. Similarly the drive to attract a mate requires knowing what the other person might find attractive - and if everything tells you that what makes a woman attractive is that she be this or that, then that becomes the thing we aim for.

The same is true I think of many of the features of femininity and masculinity that we culturally deem natural and unassailable.

In other words, what it is to be a woman, think like a woman and express a female gender is heavily shaped by the cultural context. The same cultural context surrounds people who have a conflict between the gender they feel they are and the gender they are told they are. They were seeking out the same answers to the question of what is male and what is female - just with a less conventional focus. You can't look for messages about one gender and not see messages about the other, they are defined in opposition to each other.


I don't think gender defines, at a biological level, whether we will want to play nurse or fix a computer. Nor do I think it defines whether we are home bodies or adventurers, able to be funny, or capable of mathematical genius. But the biological drive to be our gender may be important in defining those things, along the lines of the lessons we learn about femaleness and maleness. It also, in many ways, defines who we are in relation to others and ourselves - and that is profoundly important. And, however culturally conditioned our understanding of what it means, fundamentally.. to be male or female, that context isn't easily dismissed. Aspects of it may even be desirable - socially useful.

That is an interesting view - and I think it's true - but missing something.

What you are describing is a tendency to identify more with members of your own gender, resulting in more openness to the viral memes that inflict them and towards observing them as role models. That in itself I think is true. Considering almost all of the examples you gave have been gender reversed in past times, it's hard to argue otherwise.

But in almost every other area of life, the conditions to identifying more with one person then another are exposure and similarity, some sense of shared experience. In order for a boy to identify more with men, he is going to need a sense that he shares with them something in common.

...And although it might seem like their is an obvious answer to what is it that they'd find in common, children do this sometimes long before they ever know the opposite sex has a different peepee, not to mention the obvious counter example of the thread we are in - trans people identifying with a specific gender regardless of their external physical attributes, regardless of what gender they are initially called.

So what underlines the preference in who we identify with? What is it then that makes children feel they have more in common internally with members of their own gender?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

In the OP Pam offered to answer questions. If you haven't yet discovered, Cellar threads drift, like paper boats, when you launch a thread, you relinquish control. But tangents can be enlightening too, and Pam is tolerant.

On it



(Just to be clear: I am the long haired one)

[it]

[xoxoxoBruce]

So what underlines the preference in who we identify with? What is it then that makes children feel they have more in common internally with members of their own gender?

So you don't believe the people that say your born with it, you prefer the nurture over nature theory.

[it]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So you don't believe the people that say your born with it, you prefer the nurture over nature theory.

Other way around - I was saying that this indicates more of an element for nature then Dana's theory gave it credit.

that for children to identify more with members of a particular gender, it would need to come from feeling they have more in common - naturally and from a very early age and even without having much of an idea of gender - with members of their own gender.

[Gravdigr]

I could not readily find a suitable thread for this, so, I put it here:

Chris Sarandon talks about playing 'Leon', Al Pacino's transgender girlfriend, in "Dog Day Afternoon".

And about the movie. And some of his role research.

It's a decent enough read.

[it]

So... Here's a more serious question(s):
What were your expectations of people when you were first opening up and coming out, what did they actually do, and how much of that carried over into helping you / harming your own self acceptance as well as your friendships and relationships with them? Did any of them say or reacted in ways you found unforgivable? If so, what was it?

[Pamela]

I don't know what I expected. I have been careful in coming out to people. Not everyone knows yet. I expect the worst; that they will immediately try to murder me. That way I'm prepared and get a pleasant surprise when they don't.

No one has tried to kill me like that yet. Not counting the rednecks in the dented pickup who tried to run me off the highway yelling epithets and throwing beer cans at me for no apparent reason. Oh, and the random stranger who felt the need to express his belief that people like me should be shot while pumping gas. Gotta love Texas!

Most people were shocked to varying degrees. None had any inkling, unlike many TSs I know who told me that they heard things like "About time" and "We knew all long, we were just waiting for you to say it". Most of my friends are no longer my friends and nearly all my family refuses to acknowledge my existence. The one person who I thought I could count on cut out on me and removed herself from my life entirely.

I have times when I doubt myself, wonder if I could just carry on like I had been before and keep my secret. Then I remember what a pistol tastes like and know the answer. Deep inside, I bear scars that will never truly heal from this. We all do, but we don't talk about it much.

Best question so far!

[xoxoxoBruce]

I guess people are getting used to someone coming out gay, as there has been so much in the media. In your case, while it's not exactly a new thing, you're on the leading edge of general public awareness. So you're going to surprise people to whom gays are ho hum another one. The problem is people don't like to be surprised very much, and when they are, they're unpredictable. Don't know what to say, what to do, it's new territory so sometimes they revert to the default instinct of fight or flight. You've chosen not the road less traveled, but a path in the fucking wilderness. Interesting, and a little exciting, but loaded with unknown hazards.

If I wish you well, and everything goes to shit, will it be my fault for encouraging you?

[it]

Wow. Ok that's... Well beyond the scale of anything I imagined. The transfolk I know faced problems but nothing like that. Sorry you had to go through that - I hope you'll be able to move the fuck out of there. People ranging from bigots to ignorant exist everywhere but... Fuck... That's not normal reactions in the rest of the western world, even for transfolk.

[DanaC]

I dunno about that trace. There are a lot of prejudiced people and a lot of people who take a kind of personal affront at trans people.

I was for a while a sitting member of our cuoncil's 'Health and Social Care' scrutiny committee. One of the issues that was brought to our attention was the dearth of specialist services for trans men and women. The way those people were/are treated in the NHS was shocking. I supported a small group who were bringing the issue to the committee and became friends with a couple of the people leading that group. The driving force of the group, has had some terrible experiences.

Workmen taking on jobs at her house, getting there and seeing her then telling her to fuck off, they won't do the job, she should be ashamed, perverts like her make them sick.

People leaning out of cars as they drive past shouting obscenities

A severe beating on a train station about 7 years ago.

[DanaC]

Could one of the mods just remove the name from that post - it's a little too identifiable. Cheers.

[Undertoad]

done

[DanaC]

Tankee m'dear.

[Pamela]

Unfortunately, events like these are quite common for transwomen (and men) all over. My experiences have been tame compared to many. And I have yet to venture into official territory like the DMV to renew my license appearing as female, only to be told to remove my makeup and put on men's clothing ("disguises" are illegal). Also, no one has yet actually assaulted me, but it is only a matter of time on that.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah, since your bag isn't BDSM, that would be most unwelcome. In sketchy places, road flares look enough like dynamite to scare off troublemakers when you whip your coat open. But I suppose it would kill the elegance of your outfit.

I'm trying to be as casual/upbeat about a very serious danger, as you are apparently trying to be, although we both know it's serious.