Stepford patriotism

[vsp]

I will preface this by saying that the WTC/Pentagon disasters did not personally touch me in any way. I don't know anyone who was there, none of my relatives or friends are anywhere near NYC or DC, and I might be responding a little bit differently if they had been.

Having said that, there is one thing that is bugging me about the current state of the nation, and that's the inevitable rush of symbolism.

I'm picturing in my mind many thousands of people going out and purchasing flags, planting them on their homes and cars, proudly displaying their loyalty to something they probably didn't even think about a month before.

I'm picturing a gathering of tens of thousands, all wearing the same colors, chanting various statements of support, united in their hatred of those who oppose their side and ready to beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees with them.

What I just described was not the current rush on stores to buy American flags or anything with the American flag on it -- rather, it's the behavior of Sixers and Eagles fans in our city. But, odd as it may sound, there is a parallel to be drawn between them.

I've watched innumerable reports from hardware stores, T-shirt shops, etc., where anything that's red, white and blue is vanishing off the shelf in an instant. I've watched people calling for national "Wear Red, White And Blue Days," as if it'll make it all better. I've watched people who didn't give a rat's ass about the flag two weeks ago draping themselves in it now, talking about American pride and American patriotism and how great it is to be an American. And then I think about the way the city paints itself green sixteen times a year, more in a playoff year, and the connection hits home a little too well.

It's not that it _isn't_ great to be an American. I live here, I always have and I always will, and despite the excesses of our government and our citizens at times, I feel it's probably the best place in the world for people to live. This country is my home. But I don't get all revved up about it, because I view most patriotism as wasted effort. My country is a big chunk of earth surrounded by natural and artificially-designated borders, not a mystical land that blesses all those who walk upon it with goodness and purity and righteousness. I root for America in the Olympics, because that's when flags are a convenient way to divide teams and keep score in unimportant sporting events, but that's about as choked up as I get about the concept.

People are now spending a LOT of money on red-white-and-blue fervor. Does this do anything constructive? Does this send a practical message to Osama Bin Laden, who'll recoil in fear at the tri-colored show of unity? Could that money be put to much better use if it was sent directly to the American Red Cross, the victims' family support groups, the rescue workers, or similar causes? Is there something wrong -- or unpatriotic -- or sinister about those who aren't buying flags as fast as they can make them, or wearing red-white-and-blue ribbons wherever they go?

You're not buying support for our dead, our cops and firemen and rescue workers, our President or our soon-to-be-very-busy armed forces. You're buying a symbol, and you're buying it because everyone else is, too. Well, you can be just as united in intention and spirit without wearing the official uniform and buying team-logo goods from all the souvenir shops, and you can do a lot of other things with your time, money and effort that are a bit more productive.

Likewise, the Arabs among us are walking targets, just as much as the poor saps who wear blue-and-silver to Eagles/Cowboys games. No 7-Eleven, diner, Subway or mosque is safe today, nor will it be for many years to come -- even if many of those who are getting stomped are from countries that support ours, are proud American immigrants, and/or are just as united in their hatred of what's gone down. Never mind, they don't look right -- WHAM, there go your windows, WHACK, there go your teeth, BOOM, go back to your country, Arab scum. Even if this IS your country now... or was.

We have people ready to frame this as a new Crusades, a religious war, ready to drive the Muslims into the sea. (And, I'll grant, many of them are ready to do the same to us.) I read Ann Coulter ranting that "We need to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." I watch Jerry Falwell foam at the mouth about how gays, feminists and the ACLU share the blame for this tragedy, because they've been "mocking God" and this is somehow the divine consequences. I listen to angry people on the radio calling for nukes, calling for immediate air strikes, calling for bombs to wipe away the faces of those who cheered the explosion on TV. And, somewhere in the pit of my stomach, an ulcer forms, because this is _reinforcing_ the things they hate about us and helped cause this mess in the first place.

The average Muslim -- or the average Afghani -- could care less about America or its many religions, and certainly wouldn't want any of this to have happened. (Half of them probably don't even know where New York is.) Just like the average American (Christian, Jew, atheist or otherwise) is perfectly happy with a multicultural and multi-religion world, and feels there's plenty of room for everyone. There are extremists on both sides, and raw emotion is giving America's extremists the floor right now, with many rallying behind them. And I wince, even while I comprehend the pain and the anger and the frustration driving that emotion.

Yet too many people want Afghanistan bombed to the Stone Age right now, with death tolls higher than what we have suffered, to "send a message" to terrorists worldwide. News flash -- terrorists, as a general rule, aren't afraid to die. Terrorists capable of suicide bombings and flying planes into buildings certainly aren't afraid of death. The people who just happen to live in the country that harbors those people -- THEY'RE afraid to die. And they should be, as many of them will, I fear. I know I'll probably cheer as much as anyone else when Kabul starts exploding, just for the sheer vengeance factor... but I know that many around the world will watch that on TV and act just like Americans did when they saw Palestinians celebrating the WTC in the streets, and especially when average citizens get caught in the crossfire. Their hearts will be hardened even more, their devotion to their cause will be strengthened, and the cycle will continue, and we'll act surprised when something else blows up in America a month from now.

It's being called an "act of war." Yes, but it's an unwinnable war, as it's a war of religion -- a war of intolerance -- a war of Us Vs. Them with no gray area present or permissible. It's a war that no bombing, no assassination, no crackdown on civil liberties will quell. It's a war I don't have an answer or a solution for. And no flag, no T-shirt, and no grandstanding displays of patriotism can make a meaningful difference, or bring our lost people back. We need to put our energy and our emotions into more productive channels.

And I'm venting, and I'll stop now.

[Undertoad]

<i>I read Ann Coulter ranting that "We need to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." I watch Jerry Falwell foam at the mouth about how gays, feminists and the ACLU share the blame for this tragedy, because they've been "mocking God" and this is somehow the divine consequences.</i>

I really pity anyone who doesn't understand the TOTAL hypocrisy in bloodthirsty religious fanaticism from our side.

Thank you for writing that vsp.

[tattooedmind]

first i wanna say dont criticize my spelling, i know how to spell i just choose not to cuz its easier, shorter or im just used to it this way, so if u have a problem w/ my spelling, too damn bad.

the disasters did not effect me in any way...i do feel very sadly for all those who lost their lives and family members but i personally didnt lose anyone or anything.

i completely feel the same way about the symbolism and also the newfound respect everyone has for each other...2 weeks ago everyone was still being assholes to each other and not giving 2 shits what happens. now all of a sudden we get a plane through a few buildings everything changes, everyone decides they are now this big patriotic person and gets all the red white and blue shit. well lets put it this way...wen i was younger i used to be very patriotic, that was wen i was ignorant and still young and innocent. now that im older(16), i realize how much a crock of shit this country is (no offense to anyone who likes it...specially vsp but thats my feelings). i am an anarchist and yes am glad that wut happend to the pentagon happend. im not as glad about the fact that it happend to the wtc but the pentagon i was cheering about. sorry to those who lost family or friends, but the pentagon deserved it.

like vsp said, running out and buying all the flags and shit is gonna help the people up there how. if u really care about ur country or the people who are trying to help, fuck the colors, fuck the flags and enough w/ the bullshit...go help someone, donate blood or at least fuckin send the money u woulda bought shit w/ to the people who need it for everything thats goin on.

also the fact that arabs are now being attacked in our country, ya they did it to us, but it doesnt mean that every arab, dark, indian, or middle east person is affiliated w/ them. (im white by the way). hearing that arabs in our country are being killed or beat upon simply cuz there not like you is horrible. you become just as ignorant and pig-headed as those who did this to us by doing something like that...wut point does it prove? ill tell ya...it proves jack shit...so fuck off...leave them alone and let them go about their business.

and wuts the deal w/ fuckin religious war? thats an oxymoron. how can 2 peoples fight over a god and land. you dont need land to worship god. land and god are 2 separate things that one does not rely on the other.

i feel that it is also pathetic that it takes something this size to bring our country together and stand up. and we are standing up in hate, in anger, and maybe in pain. the pain is understandable. but if u dont have any family or friends that were effected by this then you should not be sayin lets level them all. this just goes to show how fucked up this country and society is even more.

i continue to be an anarchist and just cuz its nat'l red white and blue day doesnt mean im not gonna wear my anarchy shirt to skool cuz its against this country. ya i know it is thats why im wearin it. should i all of a sudden change my beleifs cuz we were attacked and will probably go to war (which by the way i am against anyway cuz it will solve absolutely nuttin so thats more of a reason i will not like this country)? no i am still an anarchist and i will continue to beleive wut i beleive and i feel that anyone who has a problem w/ the fact that im not jumping on the fuckin patriotic band wagon and flyin our countrys shit around like its a magic cure to the worlds problems cuz we got hit by some tan dumbass w/ a knife then they can all stick it up their ass.

also tracking down bin laden and killing him is useless...cuz anyone who has people workin for him, has an assistant who is just as heartless, cold, and fucked up in the head. so bin laden dies ok then wut, then they come after us some more cuz we killed their leader, just like u would all be wantin to go more after them if bush was killed. and frankly i think bush is a cocksucker too. and if he dies i wont be surprised...its his own fault as well as those that ignored the warning of the attack 3 weeks ago.

i have nothing but sympathy for those who lost their lives and families and friends...but nothing as well for those who did not take heed and prevent this from happening, nothing for those who willingly beat on arab-americans simply for being arab(if i find anyone who is beating on someone simply cuz of the way they look then i will do some beating of my own upon the person who is so cold and closed-minded and thick headed to realize that they are people just like u and me...and tehy live in this fuckin country...maybe they do support it or maybe they dont...but the fact is...u dont beat on someone for something like that...so i leave with a good luck to those helping the survivors and the clean up crews and a simple but big

FUCK YOU

to our government leaders, assholes of the world, people who criticize me and others for beleifs different from theirs, and all the hypocrites who so seriously call themselves men of god and then go and wage war on a nation, on a people, while every second god watches over all of us.

tattooedmind

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by vsp
People are now spending a LOT of money on red-white-and-blue fervor. Does this do anything constructive? Does this send a practical message to Osama Bin Laden, who'll recoil in fear at the tri-colored show of unity? Could that money be put to much better use if it was sent directly to the American Red Cross, the victims' family support groups, the rescue workers, or similar causes? Is there something wrong -- or unpatriotic -- or sinister about those who aren't buying flags as fast as they can make them, or wearing red-white-and-blue ribbons wherever they go?

You bring up some good points vsp. I don't deny that this situation has made me feel more patriotic to a degree. I am proud to be an American citizen, and believe that we have to bind together as a nation in this tragedy. As a whole, I think people have rushed to the Stars and Stripes and the whole patriotism wave because they need something to cling to--we need to seek comfort in something b/c what has happened is so unthinkable.

However, I'm not rushing out to buy my flag. In this newfound patriotism that is overtaking the country is a bit too much emotion and some hate-mongering. That scares me. Bush is revving the nation up by calling this "the first war of the 21st century." Hate-mongers make a march on a Chicago mosque on Wednesday. In a separate incident in Chicago, a man was attacked with a machete because he looked Arabic. A Philadelphia cop pulls a handgun on a Pakistani worker at a 7-Eleven in Bala Cynwyd. Other random attacks, not only on Muslims and Arabs, but on people perceived to be Middle Eastern. And even here on the Cellar. THAT is scary...and it only fulfills our image as a country of "shoot first, ask questions later" dopes.

We have people ready to frame this as a new Crusades, a religious war, ready to drive the Muslims into the sea. (And, I'll grant, many of them are ready to do the same to us.) I read Ann Coulter ranting that "We need to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." I watch Jerry Falwell foam at the mouth about how gays, feminists and the ACLU share the blame for this tragedy, because they've been "mocking God" and this is somehow the divine consequences. I listen to angry people on the radio calling for nukes, calling for immediate air strikes, calling for bombs to wipe away the faces of those who cheered the explosion on TV. And, somewhere in the pit of my stomach, an ulcer forms, because this is _reinforcing_ the things they hate about us and helped cause this mess in the first place.

Falwell is a fucking idiot period. One in a line of "God-bringers" who take religion and twist it into their bully pulpit against those different from them. What's worse is that some people BELIEVE him.

And no flag, no T-shirt, and no grandstanding displays of patriotism can make a meaningful difference, or bring our lost people back. We need to put our energy and our emotions into more productive channels.

Good words...

[tw]

Originally posted in Perspective without Pictures
Extremists are driven by their emotions; not by logical thought. That defines a person of low intelligence. But an extremist movement becomes dangerous when it can recruit moderates - where most intelligent people reside. How does an extremist recruit moderates? Create instability. Get adversarial extremists to create emotion. Emotion is the enemy of logical thought. History is so full of extremists who [created much] instability as to make a moderate's position untenable.

We have extremist posts that suggest they never understood any of this above paragraph. For example, we have tattooedmind and nothing but net who both post strong emotional opinions without any logical reason for their positions and without any consideration for the long term consequences of advocated actions. Neither even implies a long term strategic objective - only an emotional response be it again terrorist or how the country works.

Extemists are often of low intelligence. They use profanity and typically don't understand the concept of a strategic objective. They must create instability to recruit from moderate ranks. It is why your own responses to current events must now, more than ever, be tempered with logical thought and a clear strategic objective.

Covering the Middle East in pork or nuking the Middle East are prefect examples of what an extremist wants. Sending profane e-mail only encourages an extremists who wants such unstable actions.

It makes absolutely no sense to attack emotionally - whether that be a whole religion, an ethnic background, or a mosque - since that only plays into the hands of extremist national governments (Afghanistan or Israeli) and extremist organizations (bin Laden).

That quoted paragraph was the first post in 'Perspective without Pictures'. Any yet some here do exactly what that first paragraph warns of. I must wonder if many Cellar posters even understood what is posted in that first paragraph.

[Hubris Boy]

first i wanna say dont criticize my spelling, i know how to spell i just choose not to cuz its easier, shorter or im just used to it this way, so if u have a problem w/ my spelling, too damn bad.

Translation: I'm lazy AND stupid. Please don't make fun of me.

wen i was younger i used to be very patriotic, that was wen i was ignorant and still young and innocent. now that im older(16), i realize how much a crock of shit this country is

Translation: Another copy of Walden is missing from the library. Last year, it was Lord of the Rings. Next year, it'll be A Clockwork Orange. The process is almost complete.

i am an anarchist

Translation: I am a pimply-faced adolescent, and the cool kids at school pick on me.

and yes am glad that wut happend to the pentagon happend. im not as glad about the fact that it happend to the wtc but the pentagon i was cheering about. sorry to those who lost family or friends, but the pentagon deserved it.

Translation: My Dad is SUCH an asshole... I'll show him who's boss someday!

and wuts the deal w/ fuckin religious war? thats an oxymoron. how can 2 peoples fight over a god and land. you dont need land to worship god. land and god are 2 separate things that one does not rely on the other.

Translation: I don't read much history, and I don't pay attention in class. History is completely beyond my comprehension. If I don't understand something, it must be wrong.

i continue to be an anarchist and just cuz its nat'l red white and blue day doesnt mean im not gonna wear my anarchy shirt to skool cuz its against this country. ya i know it is thats why im wearin it.

Translation: "Look at ME!! LOOK AT MEEEEE!! See how DIFFERENT I am?"

and frankly i think bush is a cocksucker

Translation: Serena Altschul on MTV News is SO HOT!!! I believe everything she says!

That's nice, dear. Run along now. The grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.

[jaguar]

OUCH that was HARSH hubris, even nastier than some of the tirades aimed at me =P.YOu take calsses in this stuff or jsut years of training? On the other hand Ive come to the conclusion anyone who calls themselves an anarchist is confused and too apathetic to do anything about it.

Hed be better off reading Das Kapital than a clockwork orange with that line anyway. But that requires a tad longer than 5 minture attaention span....

No doubt religious fanatics on both sides, whether they truely believe in thier god or not will be out in force, ive seen a couple of holy war chrisitians here already (and abused one with a megaphone in the city(this is one of my hobbies)) . While we cant expect these people to have the foggiest that the US has in fact mostly brought this on themsleves, and ill say it in this thread as well but marx would call this class war, and class war it is, religion is not the issue.

[Nothing But Net]

A hearty FUCK YOU to you too.

You're so innocent and anarchistic and love everyone! And all at the age of 16!

Get fucking over yourself, you fuckwad punk. Just because you have internet access doesn't mean your shit is worth smelling.

You don't like this country, then I hope you are an innocent American in Kabul when whatever happens goes down. Not that you'll be killed in the bombing, but what the locals will do to you, as an (ethnic) American who they can take THEIR revenge on. Go ahead, I'll contribute to your one-way ticket there.

There is no epithet despicable enough to describe you. Fuck! Too bad.

[Griff]

Ummm... anyway.

We have to remember something about the young folks who post here, they like us are still learning, but they don't have nearly enough historical background to keep things in perspective. Marx is getting attractive again, because the east block has thankfully collasped and the ideology still gets equal time at teachers colleges having as it does have value for historical analysis if not for government. Each generation has its blindspots. The so-called greatest generation can't recognize the elements of fascism which were adopted to defeat fascism. The babyboomers only just recently recognized the values of their parents had some merit but still carry the youthful hubris of having all the answers and have conceived all thoughts originally since they are historically illiterate. My generation X is perfect in every way. The folks younger than me have the misfortune of learning their history from the boomers and x'ers who were educated by either super patriots that went to college on the GI Bill and love the state or by radical pinks and reds who also seem to love the state first humanity second. The kids in the streets with their team anarchy sportswear don't know that that ground has been tilled before and most don't even realize how antithetical anarchy has to be to socialism.

On a different note, last Sunday my priest gave a stirring homily on the dangers of radicalism. He spoke specifically about religious zealotry and the dangers inheient to that. Two days later a bunch of probable Islamic zealots murdered several thousand of our countrymen. During the week we heard from our own homegrown zealots who would have their own fundementalism over us if given the chance. I know my own politics are radical to some but I look for reform inside the existing structures and am deeply committed to the principle that one never initiates the use of force. This morning, the feast day of our Lady of Sorrows, my parish family prayed as a community for the victims of these terror attacks. Work for justice and peace in your own way.

PS I mentioned that I had relatives in the FDNY stationed in Manhattan. I didn't realize that they all retired in the last couple years, their kids all chose different professions and thankfully were not personally involved.

[jaguar]

Very true griff. For the record i'm not marxist, i was purely pointing out how Marx would see the whole thing, and IMHO, correctly. Its a longer term, more macro view of it but when you start looking at it makes alot of sense. I'm not saying Marx was right though. I'm not communist. For the record yes, i am studying the russian revolution in reat detail right now which probably explains all this....

Socialisim is being dragged up because of the extremes we are starting to take capatilisim to, i doubt much will come of it, at least for now. I have zero respect for people who go round painting those anarchy symbols on walls as though its somehow going to make everything better. Koizumi is getting it right - you must change the system from the inside, not the outside.

Capatilisim is saying "everyone is unequal but anyone can get the right side of unequal", the left tries to make everyone equal which just *does not work*. The problem with capatilisim is that not anyone can get the right side of equal due to inheritence, of busineeses, money, estates, and contacts. If you remvoed these it would be pretty damn good. Pity.

*waits for Hubris Boy to take this apart with a crowbar*

[elSicomoro]

Sorry...after reading what I wrote, I noticed that it was a bit of a wandering post. My apologies.

Granted, I would have rather seen tattooedmind properly spell...reminded me of jag when he first got on here.

Today's younger folk are smarter, mainly b/c they have more access to information. Ten years ago during the Gulf War, we were at the liberty of the big 3, CNN, and our local newspapers. On Tuesday, we could hit a number of websites, not only in our hometowns, but all across the world. If I wanted to know how people in Provo, UT reacted, I could go to their local newspaper or television station. When I heard about what happened in Chicago, I immediately went to the Tribune's website, knowing I would get the best information possible from a local news site.

At the same time, the cynicism that seems to pervade the younger generation worries me. Even though I hit my zenith during the "grunge" era, most people still seemed to have a positive outlook on the world...the sky was really the limit. The shift seems to have occurred sometime around 1997 and 1998. I can't take away how tattooed mind feels, but I can't deny that I find it alarming. And the kid is just 10 years younger than me.

Socialism is a beautiful theory. So is communism. But both are terribly hard to practice in our world.

You don't have to feel patriotic, or wear your red, white, & blue and wave a flag around. No one should be slanted for necessarily wanting to do so, nor should anyone be ostracized for NOT wanting to. But when I get to thinking about everything that is wrong here, I think about how bad it is in other parts of the world. Jag and I had this discussion earlier in the year--everywhere you go, there is going to be something that is negative. So, you find a place with the least amount of negatives, which compels me that I'm best off where I'm at--in the United States, in Philadelphia, in Torresdale.

As far as life in general, Voltaire said it best in the form of the title character in "Candide." Candide had been through the wringer and back, being a victim of so many tragic circumstances. Events that would have broken a lesser man, but Candide's faith in the good of the world had not diminished--"I do believe that this is the best of all possible worlds." Perhaps I need to clean my rose-colored glasses, but in spite of the tragic events I have seen in my 26 years of existence, I still believe that we live in the greatest of ages. What we have went through is horrible, but I do believe that it can make us better as Americans, and as a human race. And besides, I feel too young to be negative.

[jaguar]

My typing/spelling improved coz i now cut/paste my posts into Word/KWord before i psot so Hubris can't bag me and people can understand what i'm trying to articulate.

HUbris partly got it right, i was talking to a friends little bro in year 9 last week and jsut listening to how cynical/negative he was reminded me of myself at that point. Kids go though a stage of suddenly reasliing how very fucked up so many things are. Then most switch off, some get pissed, become anarchists, socialists, protest on the streets etc (me for a while), some post negative commentrys on internet message boards but most seem ot ome thought it ok.

I can live with world disaster these days, i'm comfortable with my politics etc, been there, done that, got it sorted. Its stuff closer to home that seem to be common for teenagers thses days. I spent an hour a few days ago beign interviewed by poice of the stabbing death of a friend's friend. I hurts every time i see deep new cuts on my friends arm and know they are no accident. Spending 4 hours hugging my crying girlfriend on a park bench after she ran away from home after a fight with ehr stepfather. Spending an entire night with another female friend who did the same after her father tried to beat her again. Its all just too common, i hate it. 80% of my friends smoke, about 30% take drugs, one old mate of mine i in rehab after a heroin overdone, he is 15 for crying out loud. No wonder kids are cynical today, go from saturday morning cartoons to CNN its no wonder really. The world around them and so often theri own lives are so screwed up its a natural defensive reaction, batton down, keep everyone out and be cynical as all hell.

I'd probaby be aot like tattooedmind if i didn't go to a school that fosters alot of discussion of such thigns on a very inteligent level, its great that you can be inthe public school system here and still spend hours talking about politics.

[Hubris Boy]

Originally posted by jaguar
*waits for Hubris Boy to take this apart with a crowbar*

Why would I do that? This is a perfectly reasonable post. Not much here to take issue with.

Besides... I like you, Jag. I consider you to be one of my special projects! Look how much your spelling has improved, in such a short time, under my gentle tutelage! And that's just the beginning. I have big plans for you, Jag!

Of course, there's a lot of work to be done yet... but we'll get there, never fear. Stick with me, boy! I'll have you joining the National Party and volunteering for the SAS before we're done!

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
Besides... I like you, Jag. I consider you to be one of my special projects! Look how much your spelling has improved, in such a short time, under my gentle tutelage!

No, it was much much worse before you joined, Hubris. heh...

Of course, there's a lot of work to be done yet... but we'll get there, never fear. Stick with me, boy! I'll have you joining the National Party and volunteering for the SAS before we're done!

Damnit Hubris...quit drinking the water from Baltimore Harbor!

[jaguar]

I could not help chuckling out loud when i read that.

And i agree with syc on the second point.

My spelling was always fine, i just can't type =P Though i have to admit going though each post fixing errors knowing if i don't i risk the wrath of Hubris Boy has certainly helped.

Dare i ask what area of politics the Natoinal party lurks in in the US? Here is right wing farmers/rednecks/racists mostly...Their intelict is as barren as the land they scratch a living out of.

Don't think i'm elligible for the SAS - glasses.
Pity. =P

Your one of about 5-6 people that over the last year seem to have hacked off most of the egotistical/stupid/arrogant/wrong/nauseating bits off my personality which sure as hell is not a bad thing.

Out of question hwo did you choose/end up with the name Hubris Boy?

A qucik checked turned up that your a K5 reader and there is a role in Greek Mythology but...