Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

And further...."The electorate has taken notice" is not a valid response to every question in every discussion as much as it is a means of deflection.

But it is a fact. Even if you choose to keep your head in the sand.

What discussion?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Why are your opinions any more valid than those that you declare as "failed" or "bullshit" because they are counter to yours?

Oh, they aren't. But your comments are 99% Obama White House and Demoncratic Talking points. That makes most of the BS from the start.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Oh, they aren't. But your comments are 99% Obama White House and Demoncratic Talking points. That makes most of the BS from the start.

There is a very simple and civil way to settle it and in which some find even find interesting or at least, entertaining.

Let an independent and objective person moderate a live discussion between us....unless you think UT has a hidden leftist agenda.

Man up, dude.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

There is a very simple and civil way to settle it and in which some find even find interesting or at least, entertaining.

Let an independent and objective person moderate a live discussion between us....unless you think UT has a hidden leftist agenda.

Man up, dude.

[yawn] No one gives a shit. You would post crap that you belive, I would post crap that I believe. It would be a big waste of time. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours, and don't care to try, it was never my intention in responding to your BS propaganda. Only to expose it for what it is.... BS propaganda.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

[yawn] No one gives a shit. You would post crap that you belive, I would post crap that I believe. It would be a big waste of time. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours, and don't care to try, it was never my intention in responding to your BS propaganda. Only to expose it for what it is.... BS propaganda.

It is not about changing each others minds.....it is about presenting an objective, civil discussion moderated by someone who has no vested political interest in the outcome and w/o the charges of "failed" or "bullshit" or "propaganda"....and let others decide for themselves.

No balls....just as I suspected.

Carry on.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

No balls....just as I suspected.

Carry on.

What a silly response. What? you think this is some highschool game?

No, I just no respect for you or your opinions.

[classicman]

Children you have your own thread - go sling shit there.


(I can't believe I just typed that)

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Democrats had nearly a 3:1 voter registration in Massachusetts.

Very different situation. This guy is a friggin contractor - not a politician.

If anything came out of the Florida congressional election, it is that the Democratic base was as energized as the opposition this time around.

That is a very positive way to look at it - Good for you.

And it is not as simple as some here choose to believe. Many factors will come into play, including the possibility of Tea Party candidates as third parties, splitting the vote on the right. This is the greatest fear of the Republican establishment.

And a great hope of the D's

Hell, even Harry Reid, who is probably DOA in a two-party race, has more than a fighting chanced if there is a Tea Party candidate as is a very real possibility.

Scary - very scary, but probably true.

Originally Posted by classicman

Very different situation. This guy is a friggin contractor - not a politician.

That is a very positive way to look at it - Good for you.

And a great hope of the D's

Scary - very scary, but probably true.

The secret plan is to use 12,000 IRS that you claimed were in the bill (when in fact, that was a figment of Beck's imagination that you bought into) to take out the opposition house by house.

[classicman]

How many are they going to hire then? No one says that they aren't hiring more. The 16,500 number was based upon the report of the the Republican staff of the House Ways and Means Committee. If I read it correctly, it is a high number -

In its analysis, the CBO wrote that it had "not completed an estimate of the discretionary costs that would be associated with the legislation," including the costs for the IRS and other "federal agencies that would be responsible for implementing the provisions of the legislation."

But CBO did offer an estimate of the costs to the IRS for "implementing the eligibility determination, documentation, and verification processes for premium and cost-sharing credits." The IRS, the analysis said, "would probably" need to spend "between $5 billion and $10 billion over 10 years."

However, CBO did not translate that dollar range into a possible number of new hires. Instead, that task was taken up by another group -- the Republican staff of the House Ways and Means Committee.

Politifact

The real number is unknown. Reported guesses, and thats all they are, are somewhere between 8,250 and 16,500. I guessed at the middle which was the 12,000 you conveniently cited.

The truth is there will be hires at the IRS and the actual number is unknown at this time. Could it be 12,000? Absolutely. Maybe more? Well from what I've seen by our Gov't they never spend less and nothing is ever under budget.

Of course there will be hires as well as much the funds dedicated to an enhanced infrastructure and other non-personnel expenditures to process forms to provide as documentation to those who opt in to the Exchange.

The high numbers in the Republic analysis are as much, or more, a political statement, rather than a statement of facts.

But thanks for at least providing a credible link.

It does get tiring seeing comments posted as "facts" that more often than not, are not backed up with a link when requested. The argument that "I dont have to prove I am right..,,,you have to prove I am wrong".....IMO, is not an honest way to discuss an issue.

And finally. the politics of health care, and the so-called propaganda, is not all on one side as some would to suggest.

One cant cite the CBO when it suits ones purpose, then claim it is "a tool of the White House" when it does not....or conveniently cite govt data when it suits you and dismissing govt data as biased when it doesnt.

But my comment was mostly meant as a joke.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Of course there will be hires

Thanks for admitting that.

The high numbers in the Republic analysis are as much, or more, a political statement, rather than a statement of facts.

Gee really? That is why I chose in the middle.

It does get tiring seeing comments posted as "facts" that more often than not, are not backed up with a link when requested. The argument that "I dont have to prove I am right..,,,you have to prove I am wrong".....IMO, is not an honest way to discuss an issue.

Not my game - got a bitch with someone else? Take it up with them.

And finally. the politics of health care, and the so-called propaganda, is not all on one side as some would to suggest.

Nope the D's are spinning just as much as the R's.

One cant cite the CBO when it suits ones purpose, then claim it is "a tool of the White House" when it does not....or conveniently cite govt data when it suits you and dismissing govt data as biased when it doesnt.

Was there some other source of data in this case? And no I didn't personally cite the CBO. It was used to reference how the number was derrived.

But my comment was mostly meant as a joke.

Backhanded at best the way I'm reading it. w/e ... I tried.

IMO, you do much the same as you accuse others of doing....with the addition of always being the martyr ("w/e...I tried")...or your "hidden" signature...not a cheap shot at someone?

The examples are numerous....the posting of statements of "fact" and when asked to cite a source, you turn the table. (my favorite example? How is a site that relies solely on govt data -- stimuluswatch.org - more credible than the govt data? I still dont get it)

Taking the middle road? More like straddling the fence. (How do you take the middle road when charges of Nazis in Congress are thrown into discussions?). You either stand up and say "bullshit" or you go quiet and enable it.

And the endless links that you find "interesting"....if they are so interesting, take a fucking position on them...not wait to see what others might think!

The jokes? Come on, dude....you are always complaining that people dont get it when you "joke"...because they (or at least I) see it as backhanded shots.

Honestly, I gave up on having honest discussions here....now I'm just here (dont worry, it will be less often...I have a site where adults actually discuss the issues from all sides w/o making it personal) for the kick of pointing out the hypocrisies and double standards.

So......on with the Merciless Merc and Classhole comedy hour! The floor is all yours, guys.

[classicman]

Well at least there is that one positive.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

IMO, you do much the same as you accuse others of doing....with the addition of always being the martyr ("w/e...I tried")...or your "hidden" signature...not a cheap shot at someone?

The examples are numerous....the posting of statements of "fact" and when asked to cite a source, you turn the table. (my favorite example? How is a site that relies solely on govt data -- stimuluswatch.org - more credible than the govt data? I still dont get it)

Taking the middle road? More like straddling the fence. (How do you take the middle road when charges of Nazis in Congress are thrown into discussions?). You either stand up and say "bullshit" or you go quiet and enable it.

And the endless links that you find "interesting"....if they are so interesting, take a fucking position on them...not wait to see what others might think!

The jokes? Come on, dude....you are always complaining that people dont get it when you "joke"...because they (or at least I) see it as backhanded shots.

Honestly, I gave up on having honest discussions here....now I'm just here (dont worry, it will be less often...I have a site where adults actually discuss the issues from all sides w/o making it personal) for the kick of pointing out the hypocrisies and double standards.

So......on with the Merciless Merc and Classhole comedy hour! The floor is all yours, guys.

Oh, give us the link.