8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained

Undertoad · 08-01-2002, 01:18 PM

It's been 23 years since the Iranian revolution where Iran became an Islamic state. When it happened, a lot of Iranians wisely bolted for greener pastures. This guy is one of them: he's Mohamad Khordadian. He's a male dancer who is known for his work in both Iran and the US. He may be roughly the "lord of the Persian dance" and even after 23 years, there is no dancer more popular in Iran, or amongst the Iranian ex-pats in Los Angeles.

He returned to Iran a few months ago for the first time - for his mother's funeral. Apparently he made the mistake of dancing while he was there. Dancing with women. Big mistake. As he was at the airport to return to LA, he was arrested by the Iranian authorities and given a suspended sentence of 10 years for his cultural crime of "corrupting the youth". He is also prevented from leaving Iran for 10 years.

As you ponder the amazing nature of a state that would give someone 10 years for dancing, consider that there is a man at the highest levels of the US government who is anti-dancing. He believes that dance is evil, and makes certain that as he sings fundamentalist religious songs, he is careful not to sway -- because that would be dancing. He's the Attorney General of the US, John Ashcroft.

Luckily, in a free country, he is unable to enforce his personal views on the rest of the citizens. But it's stories like this that make clear what is truly evil and what is not, and the importance of maintaining the separation of church and state. And making sure that free expression and tolerance are not only permitted, but valued.

That Guy · 08-01-2002, 01:25 PM

Iranian Liberace fits the man, I think.

dasviper · 08-01-2002, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad

As you ponder the amazing nature of a state that would give someone 10 years for dancing, consider that there is a man at the highest levels of the US government who is anti-dancing. He believes that dance is evil, and makes certain that as he sings fundamentalist religious songs, he is careful not to sway -- because that would be dancing. He's the Attorney General of the US, John Ashcroft.

Luckily, in a free country, he is unable to enforce his personal views on the rest of the citizens. But it's stories like this that make clear what is truly evil and what is not, and the importance of maintaining the separation of church and state. And making sure that free expression and tolerance are not only permitted, but valued.

Big deal. Maybe he also likes jam on his toast, or getting it on doggy style. Who cares what he thinks of dancing? Do you have reason to believe that he wants the opportunity to force that belief on others? Like you say, tolerance should be valued, but you're not showing a lot of tolerance for his beliefs.

hairdog · 08-01-2002, 03:53 PM

Really! You should not criticize Mr. Ashcroft. Such criticism can be seen as anti-patriotic. We'll be sending a truth squad to your door to see if you are complying with the US Patriot Act.

Undertoad · 08-01-2002, 04:54 PM

No, it's fair; I should have better evidence before posting something like that, ortherwise it's hypocritical.

warch · 08-01-2002, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Do you have reason to believe that he wants the opportunity to force that belief on others?

Well, yeah. He has pledged to uphold the law even if he vehemently disagrees with it, but has spent his career as a lawyer and legislator fighting and voting for new laws consistent with his personal religious beliefs- from abortion bans, to denying rights to same sex partners, and school prayer. The causes he champions dangerously compress the separation of church and state and are worth concern.

dasviper · 08-01-2002, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch

He has pledged to uphold the law even if he vehemently disagrees with it, but has spent his career as a lawyer and legislator fighting and voting for new laws consistent with his personal religious beliefs- from abortion bans, to denying rights to same sex partners, and school prayer.

What he votes for as a legislator and what he enforces as an administrator are two wholly different things. He's free to vote however he pleases, provided he's prepared to answer to his constituency. As Attorney General, you're right, he should uphold the laws of the U.S., just as he's pledged to do. But so shoud anyone in that office, regardless of beliefs. The fact that you really don't like his views on abortion or same sex partners or whatever really doesn't bear on how fit he is to be the AG.

Bitman · 08-01-2002, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasviper
Do you have reason to believe that he wants the opportunity to force that belief on others?

Don't we all? No doubt everyone here has at least one thing they believe strongly enough to want to force upon other people; "tolerance," at the very least.

And we do attempt it, too; at the very least by demonstration (simply getting up and dancing), in the middle (in the US at least) by voting, and at most by actual dictate (your boss, at work).

doc · 08-02-2002, 01:20 AM

...what's with the cane? Does he think he's Little Joe Peep? Or, is there some significance to Iranian dance?

juju · 08-02-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dasviper
Big deal. Maybe he also likes jam on his toast, or getting it on doggy style. Who cares what he thinks of dancing? Do you have reason to believe that he wants the opportunity to force that belief on others? Like you say, tolerance should be valued, but you're not showing a lot of tolerance for his beliefs.

Religious wackos <i>always</i> want the opportunity to force their beliefs on others. And he's a religious wacko in power.

jaguar · 08-02-2002, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Religious wackos always want the opportunity to force their beliefs on others. And he's a religious wacko in power.

Even though he is a straw man he'd be better of somewhere else. Like antartica. Or possibly teh atlantic. The bottom of it.

I do not like fundies in power, fundies use religion to jsutify the unjustifyable.

Tobiasly · 08-02-2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Religious wackos <i>always</i> want the opportunity to force their beliefs on others. And he's a religious wacko in power.

Always? Really? I've known a few religious wackos who were quite content in just being wacko. Your hyperbole falls flat.

To continue an earlier theme, you sound rather intolerant of religious wackos. Don't you think tolerance is a good thing?

Bigsarge · 08-02-2002, 09:59 AM

Amazing, we start off talking about an Iranian dancer and end up talking about religion. (Have we forgotten what the Iranians did to us in 79) Who gives a rats hind end what happens to the guy. Let them hang him... their country, their rules. With what happened on 9-11 and us being at war (I am a soldier) I much prefer the current administration over the former bunch of hoodlums. IMHP, if Gore were president (God Forbid) we would not have 1 Al Queda captive in Cuba, and Afghanistani women would still be shrouded in burlap bags. Who cares what John Ashcroft believes in, as long as he is performing his duties to the country. Seems to me that no one cared what Clinton or his cronies did, or believed in. Get off Ashcroft and get behind your country.

Griff · 08-02-2002, 10:26 AM

Whats the difference between a petty criminal and a great criminal? Opportunity. Bush is pulling shit since "everthing changed" that Clinton only dreamed (dreams) of. Get behind the Constitution you swore to protect.

Undertoad · 08-02-2002, 10:31 AM

Dude, I'm behind the country 100%. The reason I personally watch Iran is because I would rather there not be another 1979 and I would far rather you not be put in harm's way.

They say people who have been in war prefer peace, and maybe that's why Colin Powell is the official administration dove.

Iran is important because as they jail guys like this - even cane-bearing Liberaces who wear sequins and lace - the people of the country get a little more ticked off. They see that the Mullahs in charge are putting their favorite entertainers in prison. They are starting to press for revolution.

That, in turn, sends a message to the rest of the Islamic world. One Islamic nation gets uppity and hosts Al Queda, and for their efforts gets a big ol' smackdown. Message to radical Islamists: fighting the encroaching culture with violence will get you killed. If Iran falls, it will be an Islamic government that fell because the people wanted it to fall. It will be another very strong message to all those vaguely anti-American countries that maybe the Islamic government promised by the Koran isn't so great after all.

The Iranian people are, unlike their Arab associates to the south, kinda pro-US culture, from what I've heard. And pretty anti-Saddam, from what I've heard. Wouldn't you prefer to have a base there to attack Baghdad?

And the reason I watch guys like Ashcroft is because the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. I want you to say you fought for freedom, not for something that looks like freedom but actually isn't.

08-01-2002, 01:18 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	8/1/2002: Iranian male dancer detained It's been 23 years since the Iranian revolution where Iran became an Islamic state. When it happened, a lot of Iranians wisely bolted for greener pastures. This guy is one of them: he's Mohamad Khordadian. He's a male dancer who is known for his work in both Iran and the US. He may be roughly the "lord of the Persian dance" and even after 23 years, there is no dancer more popular in Iran, or amongst the Iranian ex-pats in Los Angeles. He returned to Iran a few months ago for the first time - for his mother's funeral. Apparently he made the mistake of dancing while he was there. Dancing with women. Big mistake. As he was at the airport to return to LA, he was arrested by the Iranian authorities and given a suspended sentence of 10 years for his cultural crime of "corrupting the youth". He is also prevented from leaving Iran for 10 years. As you ponder the amazing nature of a state that would give someone 10 years for dancing, consider that there is a man at the highest levels of the US government who is anti-dancing. He believes that dance is evil, and makes certain that as he sings fundamentalist religious songs, he is careful not to sway -- because that would be dancing. He's the Attorney General of the US, John Ashcroft. Luckily, in a free country, he is unable to enforce his personal views on the rest of the citizens. But it's stories like this that make clear what is truly evil and what is not, and the importance of maintaining the separation of church and state. And making sure that free expression and tolerance are not only permitted, but valued.

08-02-2002, 01:20 AM	#9
doc Caste-Away Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 48	To get back on subject... ...what's with the cane? Does he think he's Little Joe Peep? Or, is there some significance to Iranian dance? __________________ --- \|> /\ \/ @

08-02-2002, 09:59 AM	#13
Bigsarge Defender of Good Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denver Posts: 19	Iranian Dancer Amazing, we start off talking about an Iranian dancer and end up talking about religion. (Have we forgotten what the Iranians did to us in 79) Who gives a rats hind end what happens to the guy. Let them hang him... their country, their rules. With what happened on 9-11 and us being at war (I am a soldier) I much prefer the current administration over the former bunch of hoodlums. IMHP, if Gore were president (God Forbid) we would not have 1 Al Queda captive in Cuba, and Afghanistani women would still be shrouded in burlap bags. Who cares what John Ashcroft believes in, as long as he is performing his duties to the country. Seems to me that no one cared what Clinton or his cronies did, or believed in. Get off Ashcroft and get behind your country.

08-02-2002, 10:26 AM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Whats the difference between a petty criminal and a great criminal? Opportunity. Bush is pulling shit since "everthing changed" that Clinton only dreamed (dreams) of. Get behind the Constitution you swore to protect. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis Last edited by Griff; 08-02-2002 at 10:29 AM.

08-01-2002, 01:25 PM	#2
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	Iranian Liberace fits the man, I think.

08-01-2002, 03:53 PM	#4
hairdog Simulated Simulacrum Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 39	Really! You should not criticize Mr. Ashcroft. Such criticism can be seen as anti-patriotic. We'll be sending a truth squad to your door to see if you are complying with the US Patriot Act.

08-01-2002, 04:54 PM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	No, it's fair; I should have better evidence before posting something like that, ortherwise it's hypocritical.

08-02-2002, 10:31 AM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Dude, I'm behind the country 100%. The reason I personally watch Iran is because I would rather there not be another 1979 and I would far rather you not be put in harm's way. They say people who have been in war prefer peace, and maybe that's why Colin Powell is the official administration dove. Iran is important because as they jail guys like this - even cane-bearing Liberaces who wear sequins and lace - the people of the country get a little more ticked off. They see that the Mullahs in charge are putting their favorite entertainers in prison. They are starting to press for revolution. That, in turn, sends a message to the rest of the Islamic world. One Islamic nation gets uppity and hosts Al Queda, and for their efforts gets a big ol' smackdown. Message to radical Islamists: fighting the encroaching culture with violence will get you killed. If Iran falls, it will be an Islamic government that fell because the people wanted it to fall. It will be another very strong message to all those vaguely anti-American countries that maybe the Islamic government promised by the Koran isn't so great after all. The Iranian people are, unlike their Arab associates to the south, kinda pro-US culture, from what I've heard. And pretty anti-Saddam, from what I've heard. Wouldn't you prefer to have a base there to attack Baghdad? And the reason I watch guys like Ashcroft is because the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. I want you to say you fought for freedom, not for something that looks like freedom but actually isn't.

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