Drugs and Art

smoothmoniker · 08-30-2004, 12:26 AM

found this link, and loved it. #4,6 and 7 i would love to have as framed works.

So what about drugs and art? I know if I had been born 20 years earlier, being a musician would have meant being stoned, but these days not so much. I'm wondering if we're missing something that the loss of thoughts forms from drug use brought about. A lowering of the normative creative structures, and the discovery of new modes of expression.

-sm

Cyber Wolf · 08-30-2004, 06:18 AM

I've always figured artists (music, fine art, whatever medium) who used drugs to compose, create, perform, etc did so because they weren't creative enough to start with, otherwise they wouldn't need it.

Trilby · 08-30-2004, 07:39 AM

On the whole, I think drug use has taken more from the artist/artistic community than it ever gave--history is full of examples. Drug use usually leads to the weakening of most communities [note the "usually" and "most" here--some communities can and do use eupohoria inducing drugs responsibly] but I concur that, "drugs are bad, MmKay?" From what I have surmised, most people use drugs because they are feeling tortured on a more personal level and the drugs offer a sort of relief. Either that or it's fun. Then there are the people who are self-medicating: undiagnosed mental and/or physical problems.

Undertoad · 08-30-2004, 08:06 AM

Although I enjoy the weed from time to time, I won't play on it. I find it messes with my rhythm a little bit, and that's not good.

They say David Crosby came up with the alternate tuning for "Guinevere" while stoned, and it's a curiously wonderful song, but I don't know if it makes up for the rest of his whacked-out addict life.

Todd Rundgren produced XTC's Skylarking while high and high is the best way to listen to it. You hear things you never would have heard otherwise.

Meredith Brooks did an anti-drug PSA once, I'm almost certain.

Undertoad · 08-30-2004, 08:11 AM

Oh yeah, and then there's the other side: Syd Barrett's solo albums. A schizophrenic, supposedly aggravated by acid, falling tragically into lunacy. It's creative, yeah, but practically unlistenable.

smoothmoniker · 08-30-2004, 02:03 PM

yeah, Mere is pretty hardcore that way. All of the tours are completely clean, including smoking and alcohol while on the bus or at the venue.

I think creativity is often the restatement of assimilated ideas within new lines of context. I think where drugs might become a creative tool is at the point of pulling those assimilated ideas out of their original context, i.e. "A Bass plays the root note" <puff puff> "The bass will now be scraped with a dry sponge along the low strings, amplified through a megaphone, and reamped through an ampeg to become the sampled shaker throughout the bridge."

On a side note, I studied for 2 years with a piano player here in LA named Terry Trotter "He's the guy who plays all the Will and Grace piano cuts". His first gig was in NYC, and he was hired by Bill Evans' manager to be at every gig the Bill played, and to step in and play the piano if Evans was ever too stoned on Heroin to make his arms move. So there is that side.

He said he once watched Evans play an entire set with his right arm paralyzed. He played the whole things with just his left hand, and it was brilliant. So there is also that.

-sm

wolf · 08-30-2004, 02:13 PM

There is a lot of great (as well as excruciatingly bad) art done by mentally ill people. Of course, since I really need to find some examples, all the good sites are shut down. One of the drug companies does a yearly calendar of art from NARSAD which ranges from really beautiful, realistic pieces to stuff you look at and say "you know, he needs to have more of the sponsored medication."

headsplice · 08-30-2004, 04:40 PM

Drugs, like most things in life, are neither inherently evil nor inherently good. They typically remove some of the layers of thought that shape your everyday existence for a short time. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. It all depends on the person, the drug, and the nexus of the two.
I myself am not a very good artiste and have no illusions that being stoned/drunk/high/whathaveyou would make me into Picasso. It would be neat, but it won't happen.

lumberjim · 08-30-2004, 11:10 PM

practicing or writing are oft enhanced by a nice fresh buzz. perfoming is risky....too easy to get distracted and lose your place.

DanaC · 08-31-2004, 04:02 AM

Altering one's mental state with drugs is a double edge sword when it comes to creativity I always find. I have had some fabulously creative ideas whilst under the influence but I am rarely able to act upon those ideas until I have sobered up. Cannabis in particular I find actually prevents me from writing. It's great for opening up certain channels of thought but those ideas tend to float around my head for a bit until I fall asleep. Acid just makes everything difficult. I am way more creative when level.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-31-2004, 04:43 AM

I agree, Dana. I can't remember how many nights we solved ALL the worlds major problems, only to find out the next morning we forgot to write them down.

Katkeeper · 08-31-2004, 06:44 AM

The technical aspects of my craft - enameling - are too daunting for a drugged or even hung over state. And the same is true of some of the aesthetic decisions. The best decisions are made when I am fresh, not tired. I have learned not to fire or even do much work in the evenings because I don't make the best decisions then.

warch · 08-31-2004, 11:15 AM

So it seems there is the conceptualization, brainstorming which can perhaps be briefly enhanced by altered states, (including alchohol) and then the application, execution or performance which is almost always, if not always impaired. Jazz meets in the middle and rides the line.

smoothmoniker · 08-31-2004, 11:43 AM

katkeeper - you do ceramics? that's very cool. I had a chance to talk for a few minutes with the Otto Heino here in LA, the guy who rediscovered the chinese yellow butter glaze. Fascinating. He's like 90 years old and he can still throw 100 lbs of clay on a wheel.

-sm

Katkeeper · 08-31-2004, 12:01 PM

What I do is not really ceramics though I fire in a kiln. Enameling is glass fired onto metal. For an explanation see www.enamelist.com.

90 years old and still throwing 100 lbs of clay, he is definitely a role model!

08-30-2004, 12:26 AM	#1
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	Drugs and Art found this link, and loved it. #4,6 and 7 i would love to have as framed works. So what about drugs and art? I know if I had been born 20 years earlier, being a musician would have meant being stoned, but these days not so much. I'm wondering if we're missing something that the loss of thoughts forms from drug use brought about. A lowering of the normative creative structures, and the discovery of new modes of expression. -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

08-30-2004, 06:18 AM	#2
Cyber Wolf As stable as a ring of PU-239 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: On a huge rock covered in water, highly advanced moss and 7 billion parasites Posts: 1,264	I've always figured artists (music, fine art, whatever medium) who used drugs to compose, create, perform, etc did so because they weren't creative enough to start with, otherwise they wouldn't need it. __________________ "I don't see what's so triffic about creating people as people and then getting' upset 'cos they act like people." ~Adam Young, Good Omens "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out." ~Adam Young, Good Omens Last edited by Cyber Wolf; 08-30-2004 at 08:21 AM.

08-30-2004, 02:03 PM	#6
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	yeah, Mere is pretty hardcore that way. All of the tours are completely clean, including smoking and alcohol while on the bus or at the venue. I think creativity is often the restatement of assimilated ideas within new lines of context. I think where drugs might become a creative tool is at the point of pulling those assimilated ideas out of their original context, i.e. "A Bass plays the root note" <puff puff> "The bass will now be scraped with a dry sponge along the low strings, amplified through a megaphone, and reamped through an ampeg to become the sampled shaker throughout the bridge." On a side note, I studied for 2 years with a piano player here in LA named Terry Trotter "He's the guy who plays all the Will and Grace piano cuts". His first gig was in NYC, and he was hired by Bill Evans' manager to be at every gig the Bill played, and to step in and play the piano if Evans was ever too stoned on Heroin to make his arms move. So there is that side. He said he once watched Evans play an entire set with his right arm paralyzed. He played the whole things with just his left hand, and it was brilliant. So there is also that. -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

08-30-2004, 02:13 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	There is a lot of great (as well as excruciatingly bad) art done by mentally ill people. Of course, since I really need to find some examples, all the good sites are shut down. One of the drug companies does a yearly calendar of art from NARSAD which ranges from really beautiful, realistic pieces to stuff you look at and say "you know, he needs to have more of the sponsored medication." __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-30-2004, 04:40 PM	#8
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Drugs, like most things in life, are neither inherently evil nor inherently good. They typically remove some of the layers of thought that shape your everyday existence for a short time. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. It all depends on the person, the drug, and the nexus of the two. I myself am not a very good artiste and have no illusions that being stoned/drunk/high/whathaveyou would make me into Picasso. It would be neat, but it won't happen. __________________ Don't Panic

08-30-2004, 07:39 AM	#3
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	On the whole, I think drug use has taken more from the artist/artistic community than it ever gave--history is full of examples. Drug use usually leads to the weakening of most communities [note the "usually" and "most" here--some communities can and do use eupohoria inducing drugs responsibly] but I concur that, "drugs are bad, MmKay?" From what I have surmised, most people use drugs because they are feeling tortured on a more personal level and the drugs offer a sort of relief. Either that or it's fun. Then there are the people who are self-medicating: undiagnosed mental and/or physical problems.

08-30-2004, 08:06 AM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Although I enjoy the weed from time to time, I won't play on it. I find it messes with my rhythm a little bit, and that's not good. They say David Crosby came up with the alternate tuning for "Guinevere" while stoned, and it's a curiously wonderful song, but I don't know if it makes up for the rest of his whacked-out addict life. Todd Rundgren produced XTC's Skylarking while high and high is the best way to listen to it. You hear things you never would have heard otherwise. Meredith Brooks did an anti-drug PSA once, I'm almost certain.

08-30-2004, 08:11 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Oh yeah, and then there's the other side: Syd Barrett's solo albums. A schizophrenic, supposedly aggravated by acid, falling tragically into lunacy. It's creative, yeah, but practically unlistenable.

08-30-2004, 11:10 PM	#9
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	practicing or writing are oft enhanced by a nice fresh buzz. perfoming is risky....too easy to get distracted and lose your place. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

08-31-2004, 04:02 AM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Altering one's mental state with drugs is a double edge sword when it comes to creativity I always find. I have had some fabulously creative ideas whilst under the influence but I am rarely able to act upon those ideas until I have sobered up. Cannabis in particular I find actually prevents me from writing. It's great for opening up certain channels of thought but those ideas tend to float around my head for a bit until I fall asleep. Acid just makes everything difficult. I am way more creative when level.

08-31-2004, 04:43 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I agree, Dana. I can't remember how many nights we solved ALL the worlds major problems, only to find out the next morning we forgot to write them down. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-31-2004, 06:44 AM	#12
Katkeeper Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg PA Posts: 296	The technical aspects of my craft - enameling - are too daunting for a drugged or even hung over state. And the same is true of some of the aesthetic decisions. The best decisions are made when I am fresh, not tired. I have learned not to fire or even do much work in the evenings because I don't make the best decisions then.

08-31-2004, 11:15 AM	#13
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	So it seems there is the conceptualization, brainstorming which can perhaps be briefly enhanced by altered states, (including alchohol) and then the application, execution or performance which is almost always, if not always impaired. Jazz meets in the middle and rides the line.

08-31-2004, 11:43 AM	#14
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	katkeeper - you do ceramics? that's very cool. I had a chance to talk for a few minutes with the Otto Heino here in LA, the guy who rediscovered the chinese yellow butter glaze. Fascinating. He's like 90 years old and he can still throw 100 lbs of clay on a wheel. -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

08-31-2004, 12:01 PM	#15
Katkeeper Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg PA Posts: 296	What I do is not really ceramics though I fire in a kiln. Enameling is glass fired onto metal. For an explanation see www.enamelist.com. 90 years old and still throwing 100 lbs of clay, he is definitely a role model!

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