animal sacrifices (Eid)

[ladyangevil]

hi

i am writing this with caution as not to offend anyone...not with the intention to change people's views but to inform them...this might be a looong way ago..(well it is..) browsed through iotDs about animal sacrificies...just want to point out that the animal sacrifices for Eid..it does look horribly bloody...i'd puke & faint if i was there..
for those animal lovers out there(i'm an animal lover too..well..cats actually)..you may think this is cruel..it might look like that..however...in Islam...when the animal is being sacrificed...there are "rules" such as the knife used must be really sharp and it must be slaughtered through its neck as to shorten its suffering (it dies instantly)...

the meat are distributed to all...rich,poor,men,women,old,young...

it's just that there are different "versions"/scholars views/practices in the religion...

[Spexxvet]

So, is it really a sacrifice, or is it just a creative way to prepare dinner?

[Elspode]

I personally have to objection to ritual slaughter of animals as long as the meat is consumed. It is not at all unusual in many cultures for hunters to ritually slit the throat of their prey and ask its forgiveness/a blessing from the Gods as part of the process. I'm okay with that.

Now, throwing live little bunnies and cats into a fire while intoning dark chants just for the supposed extra "power" or pure shock value...that, I'm gonna have a problem with. You sacrifice it, you eat it.

[ladyangevil]

LOL Spexxvet :p

Elspode...well..the rules apply to all animals we eat(actually we're allowed to eat livestocks only) ..so I don't know if you know,but here in my country and some others, shops selling food,restaurants,etc must get food that are certified by the authorities(good to eat-proper sacrifice,etc.)..if there are signs in the restaurants saying otherwise..we're not supposed to eat them (sin) but of course there are some who just don't care.hehe.

so that's why,when we travel overseas (non-Muslim dominated countries) we have to be extra careful on where to eat...

was in UK once, thankfully, M restaurants are not that hard to find in big cities...but went we went to Paris,we were lucky to find an Arabian restaurant not far from our hotel.hehe.or else,we'd be vegetarians for the whole trip

Quoting you
"Now, throwing live little bunnies and cats into a fire while intoning dark chants just for the supposed extra "power" or pure shock value...that, I'm gonna have a problem with. You sacrifice it, you eat it."

I agree.We are not allowed to hunt for sport.Personally, that's just horribly cruel and a waste

ok I'll just shut up now

[xoxoxoBruce]

IOtD has covered the ritual sacrifices for Eid several times. The things you mentioned have been mentioned before, occasionally, but the sight of mass slaughtering.... the streets and squares running red with blood.... is a strong image.

Like you, most people are repulsed by it, even if they understand the customs behind it. Probably not because it's done, but where it's done, on the street rather than in a slaughter house.
Maybe it's just, "out of sight, out of mind", makes it easier to cope with, for us who see meat as something wrapped up at the supermarket.
My grandparents slaughtered most of the meat they ate, whereas my parents did not. I suspect my grandparents would not be as shocked by the pictures as my parents might be. My parents, seeing their parents do it for the 20 years they lived with them, might be less shocked than myself, since I only witnessed it a few times each year. Each generation getting further from the live animals.

I don't know if you know,but here in my country and some others, shops selling food,restaurants,etc must get food that are certified by the authorities(good to eat-proper sacrifice,etc.)..if there are signs in the restaurants saying otherwise..we're not supposed to eat them (sin) but of course there are some who just don't care.hehe.

OK, so you can't eat it unless it's your version of kosher. I wonder how the rules compare?

ladyangevil, don't shut up. We're glad your here and glad your sharing your information, ideas and opinions. We may not always agree...... hell, we may never agree, but it's never bad to get another point of view. Thanks for coming.

[ladyangevil]

True true...

As for myself...I've never been to an actual slaughter/sacrifice...but I've seen it on the news once and I just changed the channel because of the sounds...and the blood...can't even stand to see my own blood ...haha... but I know and I was taught it was done for a reason..I still eat them anyway...

The rules are pretty much the same..I think...there are two kinds of animals we are forbidden to eat/touch - dogs & pigs...Dogs are pretty usual around here(mostly strays) but not pigs...so everytime we encounter a dog..we'd just avoid them..if we ever come into contact with these animals..we have to "cleanse" ourselves by washing the body part with soil & water..

However...there are some known Muslims who touch dogs..and even keep them as pets...not here though...but in the UK(my friend's landlord who's a Muslim)...so kind of confusing there...I'm also not sure...maybe their teaching is different...but I have a dream (!!huh..enter martin luther king here...hehe)that everyone out there not think that all Muslims are the same...(what am I trying to say here..)so I hope we don't get judged just by one thing one other person/group does...

especially with all the recent/past political issues happening out there...as in Christianity...suicide is sinful right?so it's the same in my religion..it's a very bad sin...and also..when in a war...we're not supposed to attack/kill civilians...women..children...even rationally that's just wrong...so it kind of hurts us when we went to a certain place in the west...people stare at us as if we're evil...sigh..but that's just the way how the world goes...

i mean..few years ago..if there are foreigners here...people would stare at them but in a...curious way...you know...like they've never seen one before...but now..there are quite a lot(expats & quite a few tourists as well)...i'd bump into one everytime i go out...so instead of staring out of curiousity..we'd just ogled at the guys(hardly though..since most expats are ...quite old for my age)...haha...and if there was news about a navy ship stopping by our port...FOR SURE there will be some "interesting" things to look at down at the mall..(my bf got jealous when he found out about this & when these CUTE european guys said HI to me :p )haha...O-kay..that's far from the topic..

few years ago during the Bali bombing...my Australian lecturer told us that her family called & got worried about her but she assured them that our country here is pretty safe...hoaxes does happen rarely(stupid assholes)...riots?protests?the one and only(as far as i know) happened in the 60s...

although the streets may be less safer at night(and day occasionally)...the things we do worry about here are thefts,burglaries..few murders(crime of passion...very rare)..delinquents...etcetera etcetera etcetera...but we do still go out til late and such...we'd just have to be extra careful(lock the doors,windows,etc)bla bla bla..

ANYWAYS..such a long reply....Thank You for your opinion ...likewise here...I like to listen to people's opinions...may agree/disagree with them...heck..if we'd all agree on the same thing...it's not a colourful world,right?and another thing..so far I'm loving the Cellar..because of the adult conversation..change of opinions and such.... instead of some forums i found that does nothing better than to fight childishly..lewd..bla bla (although i found some naughty comments here..but that's ok....hahaha...)

thank you again..(btw,i know i can find this online..but i'm just too lazy to do that now...but...do you happen to know the overall cost to spend to go to Universal Studios(not including plane tickets)?oh oh and also cost of hotel rooms?)if not,sokay....just sometimes i'd like to ask people from there directly before doing the other research method..haha

[Undertoad]

This forum is located in America and as Americans, we hope that we are judged as individuals and not by the actions of other Americans.

All Muslims are not the same, all Christians are not the same, all Americans are not the same, all Britons are not the same and all Brunei people are not the same.

We have cultural similarities, but I bet your dislike of dogs is more about where you grew up and what the customs were, than the fact that you are Muslim.

I grew up liking cats because that's what we had in our house when I was young. Now that I've had dogs, I love dogs. Once you speak their language a little, they are great companions.

Much respect to you Lady, thanks for sharing.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So, is it really a sacrifice, or is it just a creative way to prepare dinner?

lol Spexxvet



I grew up raising our own beef and chicken. The human slaughter of meat is something of man's right in the food chain?

Even animal sacrifices are noted in the old testament. I think the idea being is that we don't need to spill blood to gain power. If there are religions that still do and the animals are not tortured then I think most can just accept it as something man has done on his way to evolving.


What we ( americans) are guilty of through mere ignorance is the fur trade of domestic animals by countries that do not have animal protection. Such as China. The torture and stripping of animal hides while they are still alive for nothing but to feed american gluttony is one of the highest crimes I can think of.
The torture of living things has got to be condemed. This is the ultimate animal sacrifice as far as I am concerned. Religious animal sacrifice pales in comparision to the real happening right under our noses. Sometimes literally 'right under our nose'. Next time you buy a coat take stock on just what that fir collar is made from. Please

The ultimate sacrifice!

http://www.hsus.org/about_us/humane_...fur_farms.html

[xoxoxoBruce]

Investigators witnessed a significant number of animals that were still alive when the skinning process began—starting with a knife at the rear of the belly and ending with the fur being pulled over the animal's head. After the skin was removed, investigators taped animals being thrown on a pile of other carcasses. These animals were still breathing, had a heartbeat, and continued moving and blinking for between five to ten minutes after their skin had been ripped from their bodies.

Can't waste time killing them first....gotta keep the prices down for those Walmart shoppers.

[ladyangevil]

Thanx Undertoad

oh oh..i would like to say...i don't dislike dogs...i like looking at puppies they're adorable!!!but still...we can't touch them...i can just adore them looking at pictures/videos...i am afraid of the big ones though...as this is a current problem here where recently...3 big stray dogs mauled an 8-year-old child while walking home from school..not sure about the full details though (whether he provoked the dogs or not)..he's alive though...last i heard he was in the ICU.

so there is a debate amongst the people here...some say strays should be put down gently(put to "sleep"?something like that)...and some opinions i read was to kill( ) them...however,in Islam,we are taught to never be cruel to animals..even to dogs & pigs...because they are God's creation nevertheless...so again,in this day and age,it comes down to personal opinions...and depends on what the government says on the proper way to "dispose" of the strays..so it is also important here for those keeping dogs as pets to put collars around their necks..

some of the strays come from labour foreigners (construction) keeping them as pets but when they leave (construction done) they left the dogs there to be strays...sad,isn't it?and...i have noticed recently....there are quite frequent roadkills (accidentally or deliberately..i don't know) on the highways..

really grateful of your opinions you guys...

Quote: All Muslims are not the same, all Christians are not the same, all Americans are not the same, all Britons are not the same and all Brunei people are not the same.

never judge a book by its cover,right?

[Undertoad]

I searched the Qu'ran for "dog" and the only mention is 7:176, 18:18, and 18:22, none of these passages suggest that dogs are unclean. A Google search for "dogs koran" brings up this page: Dogs in Islam

1. It is NOT haraam to own a dog, though it is not hygienic to keep a dog in the house.

2. It is NOT haraam to touch a dog or any other animal. If the saliva of a dog touches you or any part of your clothing, then it is required of you to wash the body part touched and the item of clothing touched by the dog’s mouth or snout.

Although most dogs are mostly snout and saliva.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Can't waste time killing them first....gotta keep the prices down for those Walmart shoppers.

I should do something but when I have to look at the ugly reality of it straight on my knees buckle under. It is a great crushing weight of sadness. I wish there was something I could do.

Originally Posted by ladyangevil

but still...we can't touch them..

Why can't you touch dogs?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Because it's a convenient solution to, Daddy, daddy, can I have a puppy?

[Elspode]

I for one am greatly appreciating a Muslim voice here in The Cellar. It is also heartening to hear acknowleged that following a Muslim path does not automatically take one to jihad, sharia and suicide.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Right you are, Elspode. LadyAnGeVIL is obviously intelligent, articulate, and educated.
Being from Brunei, I would guess she is the opposite side of the coin, from the people we see on the news. It's a pleasure to hear her views on anything and everything, from daily life to international politics, rather than have a third party tell us what she(they) thinks.

It would be nice to hear from some American Muslims too, I'm sure there must be a couple lurking.