Vegan couple sentenced to life over baby's death

[Cloud]

I admit to not being too familiar with veganism, but I can't imagine any Vegan objecting to breastfeeding one's own child. It's not exploitation or cruelty to any animal. The news stories do not explain exactly why she was not breastfeeding.

From another site:

I am still looking for the original sources on the following, so they are not verified... I have requested the autopsy results and have a friend looking for the original police reports to see if they can be viewed:

Apparently, there was a neighbor who tried to get them to take the child in to be seen by a physician several times from right ofter the birth up to the death. She was told that they would not take the child to the physician because hospitals have germs.

The grandmother was quoted as saying something to the effect that the child was always happy and did not cry anymore than any other child, but another neighbor, during the canvas, indicated that the child was always crying for the first few weeks.

Apparently, when the police went to the house, the only think that was in the fridge was a container of juice and a box of soy milk (not formula) which said on it that it was not to be used as a baby formula... and there is nothing to indicated that the couple were illiterate or developmentally disabled, which I think would be brought up."

During that first police visit, there was NOTHING in the cupboards at all... absolutely no food other than the apple juice and the soy milk was found in the house. One conspiracy theorist on a board I was reading thought that they probably emptied the cupboards to hide the fact that they were not vegans at all. Not sure I buy that one, but it is a bit odd... every vegan I know has food in their cupboards.

Court documents apparently include an affidavite from hospital staff indicating that they could count the individual bones though the skin and that tests were done for the typical conditions which would account for the weight loss if the parents had fed the child properly.

As I said... I have not sourced these yet...

[piercehawkeye45]

Ugh, this is why we have to make sure that only people with IQs above freezing can have children.

I just hate it when people have to force their views on other people, espeically their own children. Let their kids decide whether or not to be vegans by themselves and NEVER put their lives in danger because of some moral view. If you want to be a vegan, fine, I really don't care but NEVER put someone's life at risk because you are morally against something. Life comes first, morals come second.

There also could be foul play in there too. Whatever it was, I feel bad for the other two children.

[DanaC]

There also could be foul play in there too. Whatever it was, I feel bad for the other two children.

That was a different case, the one where the parents got involuntary manslaughter.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I think the point HLJ is trying to make is that human breast milk is not vegan by definition, not that it's wrong for vegans to breast-feed their babies...

bluecuracao - thanks. The truth is that I don't usually have a point. I'm just trying to stir up trouble.

My grandmother was a vegetarian (but not vegan) from about 1930. My mother is also a vegetarian, and my sister is sometimes. I have several friends that are vegetarian - all women. I know very few men who are vegetarian (except for my grandfather, but he really didn't have a choice as he wasn't allowed to leave the house) - but I don't know why there is this dietary gender bias.

I'm almost a complete carnivore, but only because I have a bad reaction to most vegetables (they make me go "yuk" and make a face for which no smiley has ever been invented).

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by HLJ

I'm almost a complete carnivore, but only because I have a bad reaction to most vegetables (they make me go "yuk" and make a face for which no smiley has ever been invented).

They make me do the same, but I'm still a vegetarian....

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Ibram

They make me do the same, but I'm still a vegetarian....

Now you're skewing the statistics.

[Hime]

I think the gender bias is because a lot of guys see "caring about animals" as unmanly. It seems to me, not being a guy, that there's a lot of pressure on men to act in "masculine" ways. Like how they have the Nutrisystem for women ads that are all "look, you can eat chocolate cake and look cute in a bikini!" and the Nutrisystem for men ads that are like "look, you can eat lots of MEAT and still play football and have sex!"

As for the milk thing, yes, cows need to be milked, but they don't need to be raised in modern industrial dairy farms that do not allow them to have room to graze or to eat their normal diets. There is a big difference between that and drinking breast milk, IMO.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Hime

I think the gender bias is because a lot of guys see "caring about animals" as unmanly. It seems to me, not being a guy, that there's a lot of pressure on men to act in "masculine" ways. Like how they have the Nutrisystem for women ads that are all "look, you can eat chocolate cake and look cute in a bikini!" and the Nutrisystem for men ads that are like "look, you can eat lots of MEAT and still play football and have sex!"

As for the milk thing, yes, cows need to be milked, but they don't need to be raised in modern industrial dairy farms that do not allow them to have room to graze or to eat their normal diets. There is a big difference between that and drinking breast milk, IMO.

Hime - that's why I was so disappointed to find out that the meat tree was a hoax. If we could get meat from trees, would vegetarians object to eating it?

I think that, to completely get away from factory farms (for all products, not just meat and dairy), the population of the world would have to be reduced by about 50%.

This thread is really making me hungry (it's nearly 10 am in Colorado).

[Stormieweather]

These people are idiots.

I was raised a vegetarian (what is the difference between that and a vegan?) and never had any animal byproducts whatsoever until I was out on my own at 18. No milk, eggs, cheese, beef, pork, chicken or fish crossed my lips and I was perfectly healthy. My mother still does not eat anything from animals and is actually more than a bit overweight.

There are soy formulas on the market, all natural baby foods, and plenty of things to give an infant/toddler that do not involve animal products. For people that don't eat meat, there are vegetable cheeses, soy 'meats' and milks, beans, nut products and tofu, as well as the normal pasta, fruits, and veggies. There is absolutely NO reason for anyone to ever go hungry, particularly an infant.

Ignorant s.o.b's.

[Cloud]

It's important to note that the jury did not think these people were ignorant idiots who just didn't realize what they were doing.

The jury believed the couple did this on purpose, and maliciously starved their child to death, and that's a whole different kettle of tofu.

[Pie]

I'm with the jury. Let's see how long Mom and Dad survive on apple juice alone.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Wonder what their diet will be for the rest of their lives?

[monster]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

I think the point HLJ is trying to make is that human breast milk is not vegan by definition, not that it's wrong for vegans to breast-feed their babies...

By his interpretation of the definition he found. Which is misleading/poorly worded/open to incorrect interpretation.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

These people are idiots.

I was raised a vegetarian (what is the difference between that and a vegan?) and never had any animal byproducts whatsoever until I was out on my own at 18. No milk, eggs, cheese, beef, pork, chicken or fish crossed my lips and I was perfectly healthy. My mother still does not eat anything from animals and is actually more than a bit overweight.

Vegetarians will not eat or use products that involve the death of or pain/cruelty infliced on the animal. Milk, Eggs and cheese are OK if they are harvested within these guidelines. Vegans will not eat/use anything from an animal, believing that animals should not suffer to provide food for humans, and that all farming methods induce suffering of some form because the animal is not living 'naturally". Humans are not considered animals in this respect. It is not against vegan or vegitarian principles to recieve organ donations, blood donations or drink (human) breast milk. Reason being, the humans involved are able to consent and no suffering is involved.

Fruitarians believe that plants are also able to suffer, so one should only eat that which is "willingly given" for consumption i.e. fruit. Fruit is designed to be eaten to ensure propagation, so it is OK. So is breastmilk, which is designed to be drunk by the baby to ensure growth. The giver is not damaged by either.