12/26/2002: Korean peninsula

[Undertoad]

I heard Colin Powell say it on national TV.

[elSicomoro]

I'll confirm that...he said it on Meet the Press yesterday.

[juju]

What are you, his right-hand man or something? C'mon, man, we all know that he could say that the sky was falling and you would confirm it. :)

[tw]

Thank you for not answering my question whatsoever.

You asked:

why would N. Korea have to kick out the IAEA inspectors and disable their surveillance cameras if their intentions were to generate peaceful electricity

Does the simple phrase "ratchet up the tensions" sound familiar? Need for negotiated settlement. A power struggle between moderates and extremists - and extremists are winning because of this militant American president. Repeated US threats such as 'axis of evil'. How many times need I answer the one question before it is considered answered?

Those inspectors were not thrown out yet - not until they can report to the world that nuclear rods are in the reactor for electricity rather than in reprocessing for bomb material. Throwing them out is just another way to force a negotiated settlement - to answer the same question for a fifth time.

Not only was your question answered more than five times, but administration lies to advocate fear and military action were exposed. Even N Korea's neighbors have more feared US war rhetoric than N Korea. Not one neighbor views N Korea as an 'axis of evil'. Americans who rely on right wing administration press releases would not know that China, S Korea, Japan, and Russia are exasperated by American's constant threats of war.

Your question was repeatedly answered with background that the current administration would have us all not know.

Some readers, at this point, are so misinformed as to even 'know' that N Korea has two nuclear weapons. More rhetoric from an administration that promotes fear and military solutions to all problems. Those who promote peaceful settlements in the American tradition first ask, "Show Me." That evidence does not exist except in an administration that advocates military solutions to all problems. More on this below.

Kindly state where your question was not answered. All I can do is keep knocking down outright lies and myths. If the intended effort was:

to process SPENT nuclear fuel into material for 4 new nuclear bombs.

then why is that material instead put into a reactor to create electricity? Why do you promote lies from an administration whose reputation is to promote fear rather than report facts honestly. To make four new nuclear weapons, all those rods must be put into reprocessing for 6 months - and not into a nuclear reactor where they create electricity AND where they are exposed to military attack. That answered your post but again.

Stated were outright lies from the current militant, right wing, extremist administration. Those lies were exposed.

For those who need answers in the form of sound bytes: the expression "ratchet up the tension" and "force a negotiated settlement" explicitly answers Undertoad's question. His question was answered many more times.

IN the meantime from today's NY Times, what do people on the front line say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/30/in...0CND-KORE.html

The situation has been complicated by apparent disagreement between Washington and Seoul over how to deal with the North, and complicated still further by rising anti-Americanism in South Korea.

America more fears N Korea than even countries most exposed to attack? America fears more than any other nation? This trend is becoming obvious.

Does N Korea have two nuclear devices? Powell's answer has been distorted here. Powell says it is the administration's opinion that North Korea already has two nuclear weapons. Right wing extremist opinion is that two devices exist - how to promote fear and to advocate a military solution. If Powell stated as Undertoad posted, then the claim would be front page news. It is not because Powell did not say as Undertoad claims. In fact, Powell instead says more in line with what I have posted. Powell advocates talks rather than fear and military confrontation.

I lived through VietNam. I watched people be openly decieved by an administration whose only solution was to promote more war. It is happening again. Most readers here have no experience with such administrations (ie Nixon) where lying is normal and acceptable. Careful what is source for facts when those facts come from an administration that is more insterested in its own political agenda - including promote fear - rather than realities of the world. Powell was careful what he said. It is not his opinion. It is only an opinion in the administration. Powell's statement were misrepresented in The Cellar.

[elSicomoro]

Excerpts from yesterday's Meet the Press, featuring Colin Powell:

(POWELL) We now believe they have a couple of nuclear weapons and have had them for years. This new facility, should they do what they’re capable of doing—of producing several more nuclear weapons—it will not feed one more North Korean child, it will not light one more North Korean home. And we hope that through a process of careful diplomacy, pressure, international attention and a willingness to listen to ideas as they come forward, we will find a way through this situation.

Then, later...

I wouldn’t say that. They have a larger army, but they are also pretty much a broken society and a broken country, a broken economy, and so they are, I think, in rather desperate straits. Yes, they have a large army, and, yes, they have had these couple of nuclear weapons for many years.

Which statement is correct, I dunno for sure. Maybe he was overconfident...or slipped up on the second excerpt. Does he say that the weapons work? Nah...my bad, and my apologies for any misrepresentation. But he does say that NK has 2 nuclear weapons.

Out of anyone in that administration, Powell is the one guy I believe. And I personally think he slipped up on that second statement...I wouldn't be surprised if NK already has several nuclear weapons.

The full transcript

[Undertoad]

Actually I heard it on, um, the network that I never watch:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0212/29/le.00.html

BLITZER: But this seems so frightening. This is a -- one of the members of the "axis of evil." It's a Stalinist regime, unpredictable. And you are now acknowledging they probably already have two nuclear bombs and they might be able to build a lot more.

POWELL: Don't be quite so breathless. They've had two nuclear weapons, we believe, for some time. It is not something that we have suddenly discovered. We've always attributed this capability to them. Our intelligence community believes they probably had enough material to fabricate two weapons, and they may well have these two weapons.

If they start this reactor back up, and if they go beyond what they say they're starting it for -- they say they need the electricity because we cut off the heavy fuel in response to their violation of the agreed framework. But if they go beyond that and start to reprocess the spent fuel that is at the facility, they could have another several nuclear weapons in a matter of, let's say, six months. That would take them from two to six.

We don't like that. We don't believe this is in their best interests. It's certainly not in the best interests of the region or the world. But it is not yet a crisis that requires mobilization or for us to be threatening North Korea. Quite the contrary. We have been saying to North Korea that we have no plans to invade you. We have no hostile intent towards you. You have people who are starving. We are the biggest food provider to the people of North Korea, as part of the world food program.

So we have no ill intent toward North Korea, but we are deeply concerned about some of the actions they have taken over the years to proliferate weapons of mass destruction throughout the world, to sell this kind of technology throughout the world. And I think it was quite right for the president to say that clearly when he gave his State of the Union speech.

Remember his State of the Union speech, where he called them part of the "axis of evil," was 11 months ago. They started this new program four years ago. And so we finally found out about the program and called them on it. We were in the process of negotiations with them. I went and met with the foreign minister of North Korea in Brunei at the end of July.

We sent in Assistant Secretary Kelly to let them know that there were things we could do for their country but they had to stop this kind of activity. And their response has not been an encouraging one.

And for that reason, the president is keeping all of his options on the table. And we're leading with the diplomatic option because it is important for everybody to realize this is a problem not just for the United States but for the region and for the world.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by juju
What are you, his right-hand man or something? C'mon, man, we all know that he could say that the sky was falling and you would confirm it.

Nah...I have no fear disagreeing with UT. I'm not afraid of him...I could take him in a fair fight.

I happened to see Meet the Press yesterday when Powell mentioned the nukes thing. I thought Shepps might have seen the same thing, hence why I confirmed his statement. That was me jumping the gun...my apologies. Although, I did note Powell's comments yesterday. Of course, tw is probably going to try and tell me that I heard no such thing...or he'll try to say that what Powell actually meant was such-and-such. Because after all, tw is the only responsible news peruser in the Cellar. You niggas better recognize that real quick. We all pale in comparison to his awesome insight. What the fuck do I know? I only listen to NPR and CBC Radio One (among other things during the day)...talk radio is unintelligent. Blah blah blah blah...

[Rush Limballs]

If you would listen to me, you wouldn't have to listen to NPR or CBC.

If you miss the CBS news, no big deal see NBC. If you miss both of those, see ABC news. If you miss all of them, read the New York Times. They are all spun the same direction.

If you miss my show though, there's no where else to go. I am equal time.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Rush Limballs
If you would listen to me, you wouldn't have to listen to NPR or CBC.

If I listened to you on a regular, I'd probably have a gun in my mouth within a week. That, or I'd be laughing so hard, I'd be in tears.

[Rush Limballs]

I'd rather you laughed than have a gun in your mouth. Laughter is much healthier.

Plus dead people cant buy the stuff I promote on the show...

[tw]

Originally posted by sycamore
Of course, tw is probably going to try and tell me that I heard no such thing...or he'll try to say that what Powell actually meant was such-and-such. Because after all, tw is the only responsible news peruser in the Cellar.

tw had already posted a response before Sycamore posted this. The two nukes are only a belief of this administration. Read it in transcripts posted by Undertoad or in most Monday newspapers where Colin Powell downplays the two nukes and promotes "talks".

The transcript is posted:

They've had two nuclear weapons, we believe, for some time.

One need not insult others because they love the right wing extremist George Jr. Apparently I have too accurately and repeatedly characterized a George Jr administration - having undermined relations with virtually every nation in the world. An administration that promotes fear and threats of military force rather than use diplomatic channels to solve problems. Same is the problem in Korea. George Jr closed and canceled all diplomatic channels with N Korea rather than discuss what N Korea really wants. As a result from ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/D...ary021230.html

South Koreans say they are no longer frightened by the belligerence and threats from the North. ... Many South Koreans say they are more worried about America's hard-line stance.

America - or is it George Jr they fear? Just another example of George Jr destroying relations with another ally. From the AP newswire of today:

Withdrawing from the pact means the impoverished North is intent on raising pressure on the United States to negotiate over energy sources -- and is prepared to turn its back on its international obligations to do so.

Wanted is negotiation. Instead George Jr promotes fear and military threats. But what else is new? That has been George Jr's response in every confrontation.

These George Jr realities apparently make sycamore bristle. That's what happens when you fall in love with the wrong man. There is nothing attractive about one who constantly promotes fear and military confrontation - except maybe if you are Gen Curtis LeMay. So instead, demonstrate that love by attacking the messenger - me. Then maybe George Jr will look prettier?

George Jr is not happy with just one ongoing war. Now he wants three? Will sycamore again automatically concur?

[elSicomoro]

I've seen some crazy posts from you, tw, but that one takes the cake.

Go ahead buddy...keep patting yourself on the back.

[Saddam Hussein]

They've had two nuclear weapons, we believe, for some time.

Kim Jong il called me last week. He asked me if I wanted a nuke and we discussed methods for delivering it to Bagdad. He was bragging to me that they had more than 2. So I guess you are correct. The Bush admin is wrong. The NKs dont have just 2, they have 26.


Praise Allah. People actually believe as you do Tw.

[God]

Originally posted by Saddam Hussein
Kim Jong il called me last week. He asked me if I wanted a nuke and we discussed methoods for delivering it to Bagdad.

Saddam. I am very disappointed with you. You are still being naughty even after I answered your prayer of retaining power after the "mother of all defeats".

You should know that George is praying at this moment for your head to be in a jar of formaldehyde sitting on his desk.


I am very tempted to answer his prayer.


Have a nice day.

God

[Griff]

Originally posted by sycamore
I've seen some crazy posts from you, tw, but that one takes the cake.

Go ahead buddy...keep patting yourself on the back.

Don't make me go all middle child on you kids.