Need advice for a friend, quick!

[Lady Sidhe]

Ok, everyone...I've bounced from board to board here, and from what I've seen, most of you have pretty good heads on your shoulders. So I'd like to ask your thoughts on something.

There's a girl I've known for years. She's one of my best friends, and she's helped me out a lot, so I want to help her. Lately she's been having some domestic difficulties. To be honest, I don't know what to tell her...

Here's the deal:

She's been married for almost four years. She and her husband, I swear, were perfect together. Everyone was thrilled when they got married, because they got along so well and were so much alike. Plus, the'd been having problems (he said he'd never get married again, and she almost married someone else....that's when he told her he couldn't live without her and decided to get married again). Anyway, she found out, in the third year of her marriage, that her husband had hit on one of her friends. He was turned down, of course, but it got back to her. When she confronted him, he told her he'd been attracted to this girl for a long time, and just wanted to see if she'd have slept with him. He claims that he WOULDN'T really have done anything, but he had to know it would get back to her. Anyway, when she confronted him, he said that she should be glad he got it out of his system, and that she shouldn't be upset because he hadn't planned on doing anything anyway. Well, they got all that straight, and things were great. THEN...

He started school, and she found out that he'd been hanging around with another girl at the job he has at the university. This girl has the hair color he likes, and the body type all men like. She dresses like a tramp, and she spends all her time between classes and during lunch with my friend's husband. Well, when she found out about THAT, she told him she didn't want this girl hanging around him anymore, that she had an ulterior motive, no matter what he thought, and that this girl better keep her hands off. She told him that if he didn't tell this girl to back off that she would, and he said, "ok." I was with her that day that she went to the school to see if this girl was hanging around with her husband. She was, and my friend told her that she needed to talk to her husband alone. The girl showed no sign of leaving, and when my friend said "IN PRIVATE," the girl got up and said, "okay, OKAY." Then, my friend found out that after she left, this girl came back and asked her husband what they had talked about, as if it was any of her business!

Well just recently, she found out that he took this girl to coffee, and when they walked out of the coffee shop, this girl was hanging onto his arm like she belonged there. (she knows all this because a friend of her goes to the university as well, and keeps her updated. This girl would NOT lie to her, and this is proven because her husband never denies his behavior) When she asked him about it, he said he wasn't doing anything with her, and didn't plan to, but he also said that him hanging around with this girl, whom he knows makes his wife uncomfortable, has nothing to do with her (his wife). Plus, he goes out with friends twice a week, and never invites his wife, but other women are there (both of which he used to date).

They've been having problems because during her pregnancy, she became severely depressed, and she's still having problems with it (she suffers from clinical depression). She truly loves this man, and he says he loves her, but she's worried. She has no proof that he's EVER cheated on her, but everyone's telling her she's being naive if she thinks he's not, and she doesn't want to end up being the last to know, if he is....

So she comes to me and lays all this out, and I don't know what to tell her. I told her that if it were me, I'd see if this girl was on her husband's ICQ, and if she was, to send her a message. She did that, but the girl never replied, and she apparantly hasn't tattled to the husband yet, either. My friend told her husband to expect a Q from this girl, btw.


Anyway, I really don't know what to tell her. She adores her husband, and they have a child. She wants to work things out, and she's hoping that she has nothing to worry about, that her husband is telling the truth about not cheating, but she feels that if he won't get rid of this girl that he's choosing her over his own wife.... she doesn't know how to get rid of this woman so her shadow isn't over the relationship. When she tries to talk to her husband about it, he tunes her out or says she's overreacting. I know both of them very well, been knowing them for years, and I want to see them stay together, but I don't know what to tell her. I'd confront the girl, if it were me. Hell, if she'd let me, I'd confront the girl myself and tell her to keep her hands off my friend's husband....


Anyway, she agreed to me posting her problem and asking for advice as long as I didn't mention her name, so here it is...I mean, do y'all think he's cheating? Is she overreacting? What steps should she take? Any good revenge advice to get rid of this interloper?


Sidhe

[kerosene]

My opinion: It's no good trying to confront the girl. The only thing that will do is reconfirm that she is making your friend nervous/jealous. She isn't really the problem, anyway. The husband is the problem. Sounds like he is pushing his limits with your friend, trying to see how much he can get away with. I would insist that he stop spending time with the girl. Sure he could sneak around and talk to her or see her when he could, but eventually, he will get caught. And the expectation needs to be set with him that if he does continue this "relationship" he's out. But this is just what I would do. If he refuses to agree to those terms, then she is probably better off cutting her losses and leaving him. I know it sounds harsh, but your friend deserves to be the first girl on his mind.

[lumberjim]

YUP. case is dead on....she needs to stake her claim....if he resists it, then she's on the way out eventually anyway.....easier to change horses now while she's young than at age 40 when she catches him bonin' his 5th secretary.


it's ultimatum time

[staceyv]

she should confront the other woman or have a friend go and have a little chat with her. she HAS to find out if there is anything between them, because if there is, she should leave him. no ifs, ands or buts. if he's cheating on her now, he'll do it again in the future, or even if he didn't, she would probably never be able to trust him again or feel the same. a good way to talk to the other woman maybe would be to act like her husband confessed already. go to the other woman and say "i know all about you two. i've already accepted it and i don't think it's your fault. it's my husband's fault. i just want to know how long you two have been fooling aroung for my peace of mind..."so this way, the homewrecker will think the wife already knows about it and maybe won't bother to deny it or cover it up, but will instead go along with it and say something like "only for a month.." or whatever. i don't know...just an idea. all i know is that she HAS to find out, one way or another.

[xoxoxoBruce]

With all due respect, mind your own business. You can console but don't get activly involved because you'll end up on the shit list. You find out he's cheating and prove it to her and she'll eventually resent you for it. No good deed goes unpunished.

[wolf]

Chances are he was like this before they met.

Either they can work it out and get through it, or they split.

They have to make this decision on their own.

Bruce is right, you'll be resented for any intervention you attempt. Or don't, as it happens. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

What's his history ... you said he was married before, even if he wasn't, has he been completely faithful while in committed relationships, or has he had a little something-something on the side in the past? Past behavior is an excellent, but not perfect, predictor of future behavior.

"Gee, Good Friend, I really don't know what to tell you" IS an acceptable response.

Or ... keep any discussions you get involved in with her to a discussion of "options" without giving strong recommendations to any of them. They may include "sit down and talk this over with him without fighting about it" or "hiring a PI" or "hiring a divorce attorney" or "hiring a contract killer". She has to figure out what to do, not you.

[blue]

Like sands through the hourglass....

do y'all think he's cheating?

Um hellooo??!? You just described about 10 paragraphs worth of his cheating....even if it hasn't gotten sexual yet, it's still cheating.

Is she overreacting?

Personally I'd want to kill the other party, so I'd say, um..no.

What steps should she take?

Dump his sorry ass...doesn't sound like he'll "get" anything else. Of course she can take him back later, once he knows she's serious and it won't be fucking tolerated, even a little bit.

Any good revenge advice to get rid of this interloper?

Get pictures, mail them to her hubby, friends, parents, grandparents, employer, etc.

Oh yeah, and I agree, it's their business, stay out of it.

[Beestie]

I obviously haven't heard your friend's husband's side (I assure you there are TWO sides to this) but he's not your friend. That isn't intended to suggest that there is any excuse for his flirting.

What I am saying is don't be judge, jury and executioner. Be your friend's friend - be as supportive as you can. She's gonna need it.

And my last bit of advice is to not advise your friend to make a drastic decision - SHE has to take responsibility for whatever choice she makes. Your job, in my opinion, is to help her though whatever decision SHE makes.

She needs validation so heap it on.

Lastly, and off the record, any guy who would flirt on a woman who just had his child ought to be horsewhipped.

[FileNotFound]

He took her out for coffee?

OMFG!! CHEATING!

Give me a break. That's just about the worst case of overreacting I've seen.

She maybe his wife, but that doesn't give her the right to forbid her husband to see his 'friends' unless she has solid evidence of him being unfaithful. Sorry coffee doesn't cut it. Hanging around his arm doesn't cut it.

Most importantly: The guy is being honest and isn't hiding his interaction with the girl. As in there is nothing to hide.

If she loves him and believes he is honest, then she should trust him and no try to control his life or make sure that he never as much as looks at another woman again.

This whole thing is based on nothing but suspicion and insecurity. I'm sorry but the husband isn't the problem. It's your friend.

Married or not married, men will see other women, they will interact with then, they may even have lunch with them. But it all means nothing as long as he loves his wife. Trying to control him will only make him love you less.

The whole thing reminds me of my past relationship where my ex used to give me shit when I HAD to work with a girl I liked in a group project.

[Radar]

My opinion is this lady has a major trust issue. If she doesn't trust her husband she shouldn't stay regardless of whether or not he's actually doing something. Either way they'll both be better off.

She is clearly following and spying on her husband or having others do it for her. If she feels the need to do this, it should be the end.

Let's say for a moment he is cheating on his wife. If she broke it off just for her lack of trust, she's better off because she's not with a cheater and he's better off because he's with someone he obviously likes more.

If he's not cheating, he's better off without here, because he's not with a psycho who can't trust her own husband, which should be the person she trusts the most. She is better off because she will have plenty of time to seek help for her psychological problems and she can seek someone else she might trust more.


It's a mystery to me why they would stay together. I can't understand why they have a television show "change of heart". If my girlfriend told me she wanted to go on that show so we could date other people I'd already have a change of heart. I'd tell her not to let the door hit her on the ass on the way out.

[kerosene]

Yeah, you probably have a point there, File. Technically, the friend doesn't know if her husband is cheating on her. I suppose it depends on what is acceptable within the relationship and what is not. And if both parties have differing expectations from that marriage, they are never going to get past it. If they talked about where the boundaries were, then they as a couple would understand what is acceptable and what is not.

[Undertoad]

My s2b-ex had a Radar-like attitude about cheating. I never cheated in 16 years. One week after she decided we were likely to get divorced, she was in the sack for three days straight, with some guy she just met, halfway across the country.

[Lady Sidhe]

Ok, I can answer some of the questions:

First, I AM friends with the guy, I've known him about as long as I've known her. He was married before, and since he was in the navy, he was out at sea for six months to a year at a time on a sub. He said he never cheated on his wife during that time, but his wife divorced him because he was never home.

His history: let's just say that before I became friends with him, all of his friends warned me away from him. They said that all he wanted to do was sleep with me. He slept around a lot.

Third: when he and his wife had the conversation about this girl before, he said that he would stop hanging around her, so actually, he IS doing it behind her back.

And I personally think that taking another woman, whom you'd promised to stop hanging around with, for coffee, when you complain to your wife that y'all don't have enough money for the bills, AND let her hang all over you, is WRONG. Whether he's doing the dirty or not. His wife's feelings should be more important to him than this girl. His wife makes sure he knows all of her male friends, and doesn't hang out with them unless he knows about it or is there, because she wants him to know he can trust her. However, he goes out with his friends, some of which include ex-girlfriends, and never invites his wife. I think something fishy is going on, especially since he doesn't want to talk about it.

Sidhe

[FileNotFound]

Your last posts suggest that you have already picked a side. So why ask for suggestions? Coffee is not all that expensive. Oh and it's not "the dirty", it's quite clean last I checked. Just because he slept around a lot in the past doesn't mean he is doing so after marriage.

I think it's abusurd to ask someone not to see another person regarding their relation to the person. As in parents telling their child not to see someone, wife to husband, husband to wife etc.

The man would be a fool if he stoped hanging out with a woman JUST because his wife is insecure and suspicious.

Tell your friend to find a new hobby instead of trying to police her husband.

[Lady Sidhe]

Also, I remember when they got married...babe, this girl trusted him with her LIFE. No matter what anyone said, she believed in his love absolutely, and said she'd NEVER have to worry about him cheating on her....that was until he hit on her best friend, and her best friend went to her crying and told her. And get this--the best friend said she was scared to tell her because she thought the girl might think it was HER fault.
Here's the deal with that: When the two started dating--no exclusivity--he told my friend that he was interested in HER friend. My friend said..."look, if you want her, we're not exclusive, so hell, ask her yourself." and she told her friend about it. Well, her friend, the one he ended up hitting on, went up to him and said, "Not no, but HELL no." And he said ok.
Well, two years later, he hits on this girl, because, he said, "I wanted to see if she really meant it." and told his wife she should "be glad I got it out of my system." He claimed that he just wanted to see if she'd sleep with him (he'd gone over to this girl's house to repay some money he owed her, then ended up trying to undress her. She had to tell him to leave twice...I know this because I know all these people, and she'd called someone after he left, crying...so it's independently corroberated), and now he was over it....


I mean, come ON! If he'll hit on her best friend, what would keep her from hitting on a girl who hangs on him, has the hair color he admits "always gets hiim into trouble) and has boobs she flashes to the world? (we all know how men love boobs...)

Sidhe