Rumors and Truth

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I honestly think if America could throw away the bible, they'd be far better off. But of course I am biased on that point

I'm sorry, but if I recall correctly America is a country founded upon faith.

The Declaration of Independence:
"hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

The Pledge of Allegiance:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

last paragraph of The Star Spangled Banner:
"Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"

[Pico and ME]

Whose God is this country based on now, Classic? Your God?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Whose God is this country based on now, Classic? Your God?

America was founded upon God - that is all I said.

[glatt]

Neither the Pledge of Allegiance nor the Star Spangled Banner are documents that have any relation to the founding of this county. The SSB was written during the war of 1812, a generation and a half after the country was founded. The Pledge was altered in the 1950's IIRC to include the God part.

The Declaration is an important document directly involved in the founding, and it refers to a creator, but only when talking about the rights men have, not that the government is subservient to God's will.

None of this discussion counters Sundae's point. She's saying that there is a lot of religious influence in America and that it's bad. You actually support what she is saying by providing examples the religion in America.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by classicman

America was founded upon God - that is all I said.

OK, whose God then, then?

This talk of a God founding a country is really, really silly.

[classicman]

Glatt, This country was founded upon a belief in God. I specifically used the other examples to show that it has continued over time. Just stated facts.
Yes the Pledge was altered to include God. Thanks for pointing that out. At no point did I state whether it was good, bad or indifferent. I am well aware that my opinions are contrary to the vast majority of the people who post here regularly and thats fine. That is another reason why I specifically didn't post them.

Pico - The greatest country on earth WAS founded upon a belief in God. Like it or not, want it or not, think it silly if you like, but it was and that will always be a simple fact.
Whether a God or religion is a will continue to play a role in shaping the direction of America is a totally different subject.

[Undertoad]

Founded on freedom of religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

[Undertoad]

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

1796 Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously accepted by the Senate

[Undertoad]

http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm

[glatt]

Originally Posted by classicman

This country was founded upon a belief in God.

This country was not founded on a belief in God. It was founded on a belief in Freedom from England. "No taxation without representation." There is no God in that sentiment. If you re-read that Declaration of Independence, it gives the list of all the reasons that this country was founded. It goes into quite some detail. It's mostly trade issues and taxes and stuff like that.

Perhaps you are thinking of the founding of some of the former colonies? They were founded on religion. But this country was not.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by classicman

Pico - The greatest country on earth WAS founded upon a belief in God. Like it or not, want it or not, think it silly if you like, but it was and that will always be a simple fact.

According to you, maybe, but you are wrong.

[classicman]

Ok, I am wrong. as you were.

[Catalyst]

I 100% agree with Undertoad. Be sure to check out his site @
http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm

[HungLikeJesus]

This country was founded upon a belief in Santa Claus. It's a simple fact.

[classicman]

I thought it was a Wizard?