Joe Paterno to resign at end of season

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What I'm trying to argue is that the "football mania" was the root cause of Sandusky getting away with his evil actions for such a long time.

You cannot ignore numbers. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Management was more worried about their power. Their legacy. Their image. If the English Department had a squeaky clean image, the powers that be (ie Spanier, et al) would have done same. Because they - not football - was the problem.

Completely irresponsible is to blame the uninformed (ie university) for one pedophile case. And not demand the same violent revenge against the Catholic Church that has been doing this and worse by the thousands to tens of thousands. That is simply a double standard that no one has the right to uphold.

Worse, every Catholic knows this has been ongoiing. And did not get angry when Voices of the Faithful were saying so. Voices were even banned by the Church for only being honest. Every Catholic knows pedophilia was ongoing - and did almost nothing. Thereby all but endorsing pedophilia.

You would punish the teams and student body for what scumbag management (many from Wall Street) did? But you would forgive the entire Catholic Church for ignoring that church leaders openly did this for generations? Nonsese. The Church has a long history of Spanish Inquisitions when others are guilty of misdemenors. Why is the Church forgiven for tens of thousands of felonies?

No non sequitur here. If you make victims of the innocent in Penn State. Then you must also make victims the innocent in Notre Dame, Villanova, and Holy Cross and all Catholic High Schools. Their institutions had many more criminal priests. The crime was well known. The Pope and Cardinals did nothing. So we punish the little people? Punish the innocent?

The problem is directlyl traceable to top management. We should be beheading them all in the tradition of the church.

Church is guilty of pedophilia at the *racketeering* level. Penn State had one pedophile. Punishing all Catholics and Catholic schools (high school and college) is equivalent to punishing Penn State students and sport teams.

All Catholics knew pedophilia existed and was permitted. Most did nothing. Virtually no Penn State faculty, teams, and students knew anything about the only pedophile. So we punish them. Sound like another Spanish Inquistion to me.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

So how do we break the corrupting culture of Penn State football? The game is so important that sex abuse was swept under the rug. They need to realign their priorities down there. The boosters are still the same people. I say death penalty for the program like SMU got years ago. Wipe the slate clean and discuss whether to bring it back, because right now football is more important than students, academics, and the community.

I'd say it wasn't about football, per se, it was about (surprise) MONEY.

[Lamplighter]

You would punish the teams and student body for what scumbag management (many from Wall Street) did?

"punish" is an odd choice of words.

What punishment would the "teams and students" incur ?
... No ice cream for you today, young man !

I heard one sports pundit positing that when the football program is suspended,
the current players would be given a free pass to move to any other school without penalty.
That is, PSU would continue to provide their current scholarship benefits.

As for the athletic department(s), maybe such a loss of $ would open more eyes in the future.
And for the football fanatic alumni... Get a life.
.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What punishment would the "teams and students" incur ?

Players and students who had no knowledge of one pedophile must pick up and move somewhere else? Start all over again. Go from a school that also educates their football players to some other school that doesn't?

No problem. Catholics, who knew their church was condoning and protecting pedophiles, can be forced to pick up and move to some other church. No more services in any Catholic Church for two years. That's fair. You said that is not punishment? After all, it is all about the money? We (and news pundits) are only discussing who should be punished.

Everyone in the Church (including parishioners) knew of pedophile activity for over a decade. And did nothing (except a minority such as Voices of the Faithful who were punished for being honest). At least people who were guilty by association (or after the fact) would be punished by being forced to worship in some other venue. According to your Penn State example, parishioners force to worship elsewhere is also fair.

Pedophilia at Penn State is near zero. One person. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church is akin to racketeering - felonies by the thousands - maybe more. So we punish the innocent at Penn State for one pedophile? And protect an entire institution that condoned tens of thousands of felony counts? That is justice?

No matter how you spin it, it is a double standard if the Church does not incur massively more punishment. If any institution is punished for pedophilia, the worst offender - the Catholic Church - should be #1 on your list.

Name any other institution that so blatantly and offensively protected and encouraged pedophiles? Not a rhetorical question. To have an informed opinion means that question must be answered.

The church is protecting 35 accused pedophiles from American justice. Is Penn State?

If players and students in Penn State are punished, then so should every practicing Catholic. After all, all Catholics KNEW of the pedophilia for over a decade. Players and students at Penn State did not.

When do we bring the Pope to Geneva for his crimes against humanity? After all he knew about it and did nothing - both as a Pope and before as the Cardinal in charge of such problems. That makes him a kingpin. Or, like at Penn State, we should punish the parishioners because their church is a felonious racketeer? Parishioners knew about it - and did nothing. Practicing Catholics are more guilty than Penn State players and students. When was a double standard for justice acceptable? Show us an institution more guilty than the Catholic Church. Good luck.

[classicman]

every Catholic knows this has been ongoing. And did not get angry when Voices of the Faithful were saying so.

Not true. Not "every" one knew.

Every Catholic knows pedophilia was ongoing - and did almost nothing. Thereby all but endorsing pedophilia.

Really? You must be Catholic then. I got a totally different take on it. Most that I know are embarrassed, pissed off and many MANY have stopped going and/or donating to the church.

[Lamplighter]

Apparently, the statue of Joe Parterno is going to remain at PSU,
but that may not be the end of the story about memorials to him.

This is an NY Times editorial that I believe is well worth reading in it's entirety.
But if you really don't want to do that, here are the last 2 paragraphs.

NY Times Editorial
By TA-NEHISI COATES
July 17, 2012

Leave the Statue, to Remember

<snip>
Arguing for the statue’s removal, the legendary coach Bobby Bowden said
he wouldn’t want Sandusky’s crimes “brought up every time I walked out on the field.”
That’s the point.
Sandusky’s crimes should never be forgotten, nor should the crimes of the broader community.
It is shameful to deify men who put nationalist ritual before children.
But it is more shameful to pretend that this elevation was achieved by Joe Paterno’s singular hand.

Removing the Paterno statue allows Happy Valley to forget its own compliance
in a national crime, to expunge its own culpability in its ruthless pursuit of glory.
The statue should remain, and beneath it there should be a full explanation
of Sandusky’s crimes, Paterno’s role and some warning to all of us
who would turn a pastime into a god and elect a mortal man as its avatar.

[tw]

Eventually Rocky's statue got removed from the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum. Paterno's statue will probably be moved in time.

Eventually, Paterno will be remembered for his football. Currently everyone only remembers hype that will diminish over the years.

[glatt]

I won't remember Paterno at all 5 years from now. Unless someone reminds who he is.

[Spexxvet]

Victims? Project Mayhem?

[Griff]

Step one. Statue is now gone.

[Lamplighter]

Little-Loved Statue May Be Exiled to a Brooklyn Cemetery


No, not Paterno... but maybe they could keep each other company.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Griff

Step one. Statue is now gone.

Kinda torn. It could have served as a reminder of what happened.
Leading to why and the mistakes that were made. Perhaps a deterrent of sorts...???

Then again, perhaps not. I'm kinda glad its gone. In the long run its probably for the best.

[Lamplighter]

There is more to this article, but these are the first few paragraphs
Additional penalties probably will also be announced by NCAA

Chicago Tribune
By Chris Dufresne, Tribune Newspapers
7:36 p.m. CDT, July 22, 2012

Paterno statue comes down a day before NCAA's hammer

Penn State removed the statue of former coach Joe Paterno outside Beaver Stadium
on Sunday in advance of NCAA sanctions that could cripple the football program for years.

The NCAA, a methodical and procedural organization not known for tipping its investigative hand,
has scheduled a Monday morning news conference at which it stated it will levy
"corrective and punitive measures" against the school in the wake of a child sex-abuse scandal
that led to the conviction of former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

The penalties will be disclosed at the organization's Indianapolis headquarters
by NCAA President Mark Emmert and Ed Ray, chairman of the NCAA's executive committee.

Multiple news agencies, including ESPN and Yahoo, reported that the penalties
would be "significant" and "staggering" and include a bowl ban and loss of scholarships,
but wouldn't require the school to shut down its famed program.

CBS News, quoting industry sources, reported Penn State would receive
"unprecedented" punishment for its role in the scandal,
including a fine of at least $30 million to perhaps as much as $60 million.
CBS reported the fine would go toward an endowment for children's causes.
<snip>

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by classicman

Kinda torn. It could have served as a reminder of what happened.
Leading to why and the mistakes that were made. Perhaps a deterrent of sorts...???

Then again, perhaps not. I'm kinda glad its gone. In the long run its probably for the best.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

Step one. Statue is now gone.

I've heard two good suggestions, recently, about what should be done with the statue.

One was to put it inside the library, with full disclosure of his complicity.

The second was to leave it where it was, but rotate it and put children "behind" him, showing how he "turned his back" on the victims.

As with any person, Joe was not entirely good or entirely evil. He did a whole lot of good for people and Penn State, and he enabled a child sexual predator to continue his despicable actions. Joe has become the scape goat. What I want is for others to be held responsible, as well, and not just Curley and Spanier. What will be done to the statues of Tom Corbett, the investigators/prosecutors who didn't indict Sandusky, and all the others responsible for his being free all those years.