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Old 07-04-2019, 09:04 AM   #136
lumberjim
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No, it's not new. I don't think it's a cure all either. I've been going on in this thread because that's what this thread is.

So easy to confuse what I'm describing as apathy. Not at all the case. And it's clearly not for everyone. Since the only ones commenting at this point are apparently irritated by the concepts, I guess there's no need to continue sharing what I'm learning. Your opinion of what's going on with me is not correct. Probably in large part due to the limited info you get from what I post here and what I feel. It's not really possible to describe with words because words are by definition thought.

Your comments on this topic, in particular, have seemed either self congratulatory or condescending. I understand that the same inaccuracy exists in my interpretation of your posts. You probably don't intend to be that way.

So, you said what you said, and unless you actually are trying to troll me, it's all good in the hood.

So yeah, let this thread fade. I'm done.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:01 AM   #137
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I think it's similar to Buddhist meditation, which is so deep in humanity, it predates Christianity.

Quote:
makes one expendable in other people's lives leading to failed relationships
Ironic, because due to the warm relationship building you have done in this thread, people have asked me privately if you should be banned.

That's way worse than "expendable". It's not that they don't care if you are around. They actually want you gone.

Relationship expert, counsel thyself.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:10 AM   #138
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So what's new?

The power of now compels me.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:42 AM   #139
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What's new is the attention I'm paying to my own reactions. This would have devolved into a flame fest if I had not been.

Mocking me isn't very nice. I may be wrong, but I expect you're intent is to get a reaction so you can then show me that I'm wrong. That's ok, but I'm not trying to be right or show you that you're wrong in this thread, so... . I hope you didn't take it that way. I was just trying to point to something I find useful.

I'm not a case study. I'm your friend. Peace
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #140
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Hmmm, I dunno, you once said that if someone doesn't post their picture in the Cellar they can't be your friend and I still haven't done that.

You've seen for yourself that it's not just me. I'm just the one who's not going to pussyfoot around with you. While you're certainly entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. As long as you're just trying to point to something that YOU find useful, it's all good.

I'm not looking for any reaction, just to keep opinions in perspective. There's no trolling or flame war. If that was my intention, I would have laid into you from the start. I'm responding as you demonstrate you can handle my responses. Others may think you need to be coddled. I do not. My sword is mighty; but, my pen is mightier. If I decide to virtually attack someone here, I'll leave no doubt in their mind. Peace, and long life.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
If it works for you that's great, go with it. However you're preaching this as the holy grail, salvation for all, and I don't believe that. I think there are people who will have reality come back to bite them in the ass when they repeat mistakes that they could have avoided.
I re read this. The last sentence.... What mistake do you think I made that I might be at risk of repeating? Or am I missing your point? I'm not telling you that I erase my memories. I am merely not residing in them. They're there, clear as can be. I can still see her there on the table. It was real. It no longer is. Now it's my memory I see.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:36 AM   #142
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The only fact I've offered is that everything unfolds in the present moment.

The rest is my opinion and advice.

I think you're right. I was wrong when I said that about the pictures. I have a clear image of most of you without them. And they don't really matter. The intent of that statement wasn't truly literal though, anyway. What I think I meant at the time was that if you're guarded and unwilling to share your real self (maybe a photo was a bad example) then we can't really share and connect as friends are wont to do.

Your sword and pen are just as impressive as your empathy.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:47 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim View Post
I re read this. The last sentence.... What mistake do you think I made that I might be at risk of repeating? Or am I missing your point? I'm not telling you that I erase my memories. I am merely not residing in them. They're there, clear as can be. I can still see her there on the table. It was real. It no longer is. Now it's my memory I see.
My reticence isn't about you, and it doesn't piss me off. Like I said if it works for you that's great, I'm just cautioning others to be careful of this path and be aware because you're a fucking good salesman.

The years teach us what the days never knew. If you stay in the now and don't reflect on the past, then you can't try to plan the future avoiding those pitfalls, there is a good chance of repeating your fuck ups. Personally I try not to make the same mistakes more than 4 or 5 times.

Don't take my skepticism personally. In collage my roommate nagged me into reading The Third Eye by Lobsang Rampa. As far as I was concerned it was Tibetan Science Fiction, nothing to do with the real world, but he wanted to believe. No problem, believe what you want as long as you come up with your share of the rent on time. And stop banging your chick in my bed when I'm gone for the weekend.
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:46 AM   #144
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Sadhguru says in the opening of his book, Inner Engineering, that the present moment... Shtick... Can be dangerous. Can cause stagnation. I'm reading that now. I can see your point. As in all things, moderation.

Perhaps it's important to be more specific about my personal context. At times of crisis, Tolle is a powerful teacher. When things are normal, others may have more to offer. Or maybe we need all of it at once.

I'm learning. I'm not qualified to instruct. I offer this Now stuff here as a resource for times of trouble. Your mileage will vary.
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:24 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
I think it's similar to Buddhist meditation, which is so deep in humanity, it predates Christianity.
I read Tolle years ago. I was struck that it was pretty derivative of Buddhism but maybe more accessible for a Western audience. I guess I'm one of those who has been largely silent on this thread who finds some peace in trying to go through life informed by this. Some folks believe this kind of thinking could make us too accepting of things that should be fought, maybe this is where Bruce is coming from?
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:56 PM   #146
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Consider it in light of the Serenity Prayer:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Use an applicable method or technique as a tool; but, not as a crutch. It shouldn't interfere with acquiring the wisdom to know the difference between what you should accept and what you should change. When someone extols the virtue of a method/technique disproportionate to other applicable ones, it raises a red flag that it could be being used as a crutch. Crutches are symptomatic treatment and don't treat the underlying cause. Crutches alone may seem like a quick way around a problem; but, the short-term gain may not outweigh creating a long-term dependency on them. If one presents as overly reliant on a method/technique, hopefully one's friends will seek to help balance them out.

Becoming balanced depends various factors including a person's Power of Humility (in the psychology sense). The stronger the ego, the harder a well balanced position is to achieve. The tendency is to want to simply manage adversity through force of will. The Power of Humility; however, is more a leadership function than a management one. The Power of Humility makes for strong leaders; because, those who have it listen to others and allow them to help resolve issues rather than just telling them how it's going to be done. The power of humility takes one from just talking the talk, to walking the walk. The Power of Now always has its place. Its appeal has a tendency; however, to become exaggerated in those who don't make the Power of Humility cut.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:22 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Some folks believe this kind of thinking could make us too accepting of things that should be fought, maybe this is where Bruce is coming from?
Nah, I'm just a contrary prick.
I can see pitfalls in most cut and dried philosophies, also in ones winging it like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Maybe after Trump's war we can get better thinking.
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Old 07-06-2019, 10:42 AM   #148
lumberjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadhguru
There are many spurious and dangerously misleading teachings in vogue in our world today. “Be in the moment” is one of them. The assumption is that you could be somewhere else, if you wanted. How is that even possible? The present is the only place that you can be. If you live, you live in this moment. If you die, you die in this moment. This moment is eternity. How are you going to escape it, even if you try?Right now your problem is that you suffer what happened ten years ago and you suffer what may happen the day after tomorrow. Both are not living truths. They are simply a play of your memory and imagination. Does this mean then that in order to find peace you must annihilate your mind? Not at all. It simply means you need to take charge of it. Your mind carries the enormous reserves of memory and the incredible possibilities of the imagination that are the result of an evolutionary process of millions of years. If you can use it when you want and put it aside when you don’t, the mind can be a fantastic tool. To shun the past and neglect the future is to trivialize this wonderful faculty. So “be in the moment” becomes a crippling psychological restriction—it denies our existential reality.

I found a pdf of that book. Is this your concern, bruce?
I agree that if I was to ONLY live in the moment, this would be an issue. What I'm doing is working on the capability. Being Able to center myself when I choose to. Not to live in that place all day every day.


And once again, I apologize if anyone took this as preaching. It's a tricky thing. I found great usefulness, and want to share it. Easy to slip into preaching mode. To be persuasive about it.
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:38 AM   #149
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Preach on bro.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:38 PM   #150
lumberjim
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Once it happened…Four men were walking in the forest. The first was a gnana yogi, the second was a
bhakti yogi, the third was a karma yogi, and the fourth was a kriya yogi.
Usually, these four people can never be together.


The gnana yogi has total disdain for every other type
of yoga. His is the yoga of the intellect, and typically, an intellectual has complete disdain for everybody
else, particularly these devotional types who look upward and chant God’s name all the time. They look
like a bunch of idiots to him.

But a bhakti yogi, a devotee, thinks all this gnana, karma, and kriya yoga is a waste of time. He pities
the others who don’t see that all you need to do is know that God exists, hold his hand, and walk in trust.
All this mind-splitting philosophy, this bone-bending yoga is absurd to him.

Then there is the karma yogi, the man of action. He thinks all the other types are just plain lazy. Their
lives are pure self-indulgence.

But the kriya yogi is the most disdainful of all. He laughs at everyone. Don’t they know that existence is
just energy? If you don’t transform your energy, whether you long for God or for anything else, nothing is
going to happen! There can be no transformation.

These four people customarily cannot get along. But today they happened to be walking together in the
forest. Suddenly, a storm broke out. It grew fierce. The rain started pouring down relentlessly. Drenched
to the skin, the four yogis started running, looking desperately for shelter.
The bhakti yogi, the devotion man, said, “There’s an ancient temple in this direction. Let’s go there.”
(As a devotee, he was particularly familiar with the geography of temples.)
They ran in that direction. They came to an ancient temple; all the walls had crumbled long ago; just the
roof and four columns remained. They rushed into the temple—not out of any love for God, but just to
escape the rain.

There was a deity in the center. They ran toward it. The rain started lashing from every direction. There
was no other place to go, so they moved closer and closer. Finally, there was no alternative. They just sat
down and embraced the idol.
The moment these four people hugged the idol, suddenly God appeared.

In all their minds the same question arose: why now? They wondered, “We expounded so many subtle
and arcane philosophies, worshipped at every possible sacred shrine, great and small, selflessly served
so many people, did so much body-breaking penance, but you never showed up. Now when we’re just
escaping the rain, you turn up. Why?”

God said, “At last you four idiots got together.”
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