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Old 01-23-2002, 11:54 AM   #16
Nic Name
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Most of the issues that give rise to "nationalism" i.e.

national defense
homeland security
immigration
trade and commerce
natural resources
monetary policy
social heritage
cultural values

etc. etc. etc.

definitely favor/favour assimilation.

One of the major constitutional differences of these two federal democracies is that in Canada the residual powers are in the federal government, whereas in the USA the residual powers are in the states. As Canada moves toward regional interests of the Provinces, especially Quebec, there is a good case for these political units to become more autonomous States, with greater regional power than the Canadian confederation allows them.

Some of the major points of differentiation between Canada and US values, generally, such as death penalty and gun control would have to be modified in any "merger" which would require bi-lateral constitutional amendments of all sorts. One way of satisfying all constituencies would be to make the "right to bear arms" a matter of state jurisdiction, in which case the former provinces would, no doubt, vote to be "gun controlled" states, whereas states like Texas would likely preserve a modified right to bear arms, taking into consideration current homeland security priorities.

I see it coming in my children's lifetime, if not my own. It's definitely becoming an open debate in Canada. Not everyone is in agreement, of course.

Last edited by Nic Name; 01-23-2002 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 01-23-2002, 11:56 AM   #17
warch
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A great anthem. Sarah Mclachlan did a version that gave me shivers. I admire when someone really sings well and honestly instead of "styling", going for the high C. I also enjoyed hearing the bilingual version while watching an old c.70s Habs game on Classic sports. Canadians, Who is that famous French Canadian singer? He just belted it. It was great.
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Old 01-23-2002, 12:43 PM   #18
dave
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I figure that some time in the future, we're just going to be a huge country. One big fuckin' blob of land and people. Canadians and us folks from the States aren't that different - all things considered, the only difference is really our government. Because of that, we each have nationalism... but even the dead & beaten horse of "eh?" is just dialect, much like southerners say "gawlee!" and the like. I'm figuring probably in 200 years. The border will dissolve and we'll become one nation. I'm not saying the United States will become a part of Canada or that Canada will become the 51st state - rather, we'll just kinda merge. I dunno. It just seems like it will happen one day. I could be wrong though.

Plus, if we did that, we'd have Russia beat, size-wise
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Old 01-23-2002, 12:46 PM   #19
Nic Name
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If there were to be a unification of Canada and the USA, and perhaps Latin America, it would seem that a unifying patriotic theme for North America could be America the Beautiful, whether you prefer Elvis Presley's or Lee Greenwood's rendition.
Although it wouldn't hurt to change the last line to, "Thy brighter jubilee!"

Incidentally, the lyrics of that patriotic song includes the line "from sea to shining sea" which is the motto of Canada, a mari usque a mare.

Last edited by Nic Name; 01-23-2002 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 01-23-2002, 04:36 PM   #20
warch
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I dont like this merge idea. Bigger aint better.Canada doesnt need a big southern province.
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Old 01-23-2002, 04:47 PM   #21
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I wouldn't have any problem with a merger, so long as they hold on to CBC's Radio Two.
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Old 01-24-2002, 01:42 PM   #22
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Toronto's famous skyline


This view of the skyline is seen from Toronto Island Park, an urban paradise.
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Old 01-24-2002, 01:54 PM   #23
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I remember looking at the CN Tower and thinking "Wow, that exists because Canada needed to feel good about itself." I remember thinking it was funny when all the Canadians I know agreed with me

(They all live in Toronto, BTW :P )
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Old 01-25-2002, 12:37 PM   #24
kaleidoscopic ziggurat
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hmm... as the resident torontonian expert i feel i should comment, but what to say? i've never been to a game at the skydome nor have i been on the CN tower... however, i have been exactly where that last picture was taken, on toronto island [it actually looks like it was taken on ward's island]... that's a good piece of toronto right there - for $5 you get a ferry ride across and there are NO CARS [woo hoo!] lots of greenery for smoking greens, and no one has ever minded when me and my crackhead goon friends bring a system over there to pump out some tunes.

as for a merger... i have one word for you - HA. like that'll ever happen. most canadians have a strong distaste for certain american problems and i don't see them being reconciled any time soon. the #1 difference will be gun control of course - we tend to think that no one needs a gun for defense or whatever reason... the moment you start arming the populace is when people start killing each other, or so it would seem. we have no reason to fear violent crime up here - toronto's streets are ridiculously safe as long as you follow a few precautions that fall under 'common sense' [such as: don't go to regent park at night!]. another big issue is prohibition... we know it doesnt work. if canada were somewhere else on the globe we'd already have it legalized... but our drug laws are dependant on YOUR policies and procedures because of the world's largest [mostly] unguarded border lies between us i mean, most of your weed probably comes from BC anyway but it could be a lot worse [in the eyes of your gov't] or better [in the red eyes of your nation's stoners]. canadian travellers often remark of incidences where they are treated like shit by foreigners until they make it clear that they're not american! i believe one of the tricks american backpackers use is to sew a canadian flag patch on to a visible portion of the gear? there's a reason for that yah our national character is part cowardice and part courtesy, a wimpy mixture. but whatever my rambling diatribe may touch upon, one thing is for certain: though not being very patriotic, canadians are happy to be defined by being NOT american!

now maybe this sounds uppity... in which case i'd have to say our gov't is run by a geriatric gang of corrupt officials with no souls... and how the gov't treats (or treated) our natives is inexcuseable. toronto the city is run by a complete buffoon, mel lastman, an ex-furniture salesdude. he's too old, too out of touch, and too much of a sappy show-off to amount to any kind of capable leader of canada's largest metropolis. if its not his perpetual gaffes in minor municipal politics its the scandals that are constantly erupting - always with amusing results. not so long ago everyone found out that rich boy mel has a bunch of illegitamite kids, that he didn't know biker gangs dealt drugs and participated in crime (this happened REAL recent - he went to welcome the biker gangs to the city.. idiot), and oh his wife ran off with a fireman, ha. anyhow he should have resigned... its really too bad no one takes democracy seriously in this city... last election, it was the usual. vote for the kindly old gentleman with the rubber face... ah well. guy i voted for came in second... might as well have been last since mel got 80%+ of the vote. boooo-urns.

the eaton center sucks. avoid that cess pool. i work right next to it and... ugh. people move slow, they act like dumb beasts of burden, shopping all the way... there are good places in toronto to visit but i generally despise most of the city. its growing completely out of control with no respect for the future reprecussions. i hope i'm out of north america in 10 years, so they can merge with whoever the hell they want, haha.

anyway if you're still with me now we'll get down to the useful information my fave restaurant in the city - authentic mexican cuisine. you can find it on bathurst st. just north of bloor and south of davenport. its on the east side of the street and is called 'dos amigos'... excellent marguiritas and tasty fare - not texmex slop but actual fine mexican food. kensington is also a great place... a real mixture of things. officially its a market, but also a vintage clothes sector, and there are all kinds of weird and wacky stores in the various corners of its sprawl. kensington can be found just to the west of the main "chinatown" here which is at spadina/dundas. parallel with spadina and just a bit to the west is kensington ave, the main street that cuts through the market area. check it out for cheap produce and wholesome fresh baked goods and that kind of thing. very seedy and worldly too there's a good restaurant at the north end of kensington as well - la palette.. very fine french cuisine though it is a bit pricey. the best thing? extensive 3 page specialty beer menu. wowza...

i'll blah later maybe...
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Old 01-27-2002, 02:15 AM   #25
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LEGISLATION TO CREATE PERMANENT TORONTO WATERFRONT REVITALIZATION CORPORATION (TWRC)

The Ontario and federal governments and the City of Toronto will be making a total investment of $1.5 billion -$500 million each - to revitalize and transform Toronto's waterfront.

All three governments also agreed that the Ontario Government would take the lead in creating a permanent corporation to plan and manage the renewal process of Toronto's waterfront.

On December 11, 2001, the Provincial government introduced the proposed Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation Act, 2001 as a result of that commitment.

Headed by Robert Fung, the TWRC will be responsible for developing business strategies, implementing projects and championing innovation to achieve the three governments' goal of revitalizing Toronto's waterfront in a financially self-sustaining and environmentally responsible manner.

The objectives of the corporation also include:

- Creating an accessible and active waterfront for living, working and recreation;

- Promoting and encouraging private sector involvement in waterfront redevelopment; and

- Encouraging public input in the development plan.


Here's a very interesting website with a pictorial overview of Toronto's waterfront today.

ONLY IF YOU HAVE A HIGH SPEED CONNECTION ... and an interest in Toronto's history, will you be interested in this fascinating map of Toronto in 1898, showing a much different shoreline. Toronto's waterfront skyline is built on landfill of Lake Ontario during the last century. (This 790 X 590 pixel image can be expanded to a detailed 4240 X 3167 pixel image.)

Last edited by Nic Name; 01-27-2002 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 01-28-2002, 08:50 AM   #26
kaleidoscopic ziggurat
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there's another funny project. there's always someone that doesnt want to cough up the cash... see, if i'm not mistaken - the waterfront project was part of the olympic package... flash back a few months and you'll hear about another great toronto scandal... we were neck and neck with beijing for the 2008 summer games then our good mayor mr. lastman makes a comment that he doesn't want to visit africa cuz all he can think of is savages dancing around him in a pot of hot water... the irony, of course, being that the comment itself was what put himself in such hot water it was a high profile gaffe while walking a political tightrope.. total fuckup!

so i hear that the waterfront project is basically dead or only half-assed since "we" fucked up and lost the olympics. fed.gov won't pay their share, or maybe its the city... all i know is that recently we've had a lot of projects that need funding from all three levels of gov't and two will show but the others won't - leaving the two that did supply not having to cough up funds after all.
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Old 01-28-2002, 09:22 AM   #27
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Toronto may have lost its bid to host the 2008 Olympics, but a new entertainment complex dedicated to the spirit of the Games is to be built downtown.

In the fall of 2003, Olympic Spirit, a 4,645-square-metre building, will rise out of the construction chaos at the corner of Yonge and Dundas streets.

A key partner is in this project is Bobby Sniderman, son of Sam "The Record Man" Sniderman, and owner of The Senator restaurant in Toronto. Sniderman will assume the role of interim general manager of Olympic Spirit. Sniderman had the forsight to buy this key parcel of land facing Dundas Square and to work with architectural genius Patrick Berge at Sceno Plus to put together the winning bid proposal.
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Old 01-28-2002, 03:55 PM   #28
Nic Name
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Going for Gold



TORONTO, ON — Wayne Gretzky, Executive Director of Canada’s 2002 Men’s Olympic Hockey team, announced the roster that will compete for Canada at the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City, UT.

The players named to Canada’s 2002 Men’s Olympic hockey team are:

Goaltenders: Ed Belfour (Carman, MB), Martin Brodeur (Montreal, QC), Curtis Joseph (Keswick, ON)

Defensemen: Eric Brewer (Vernon, BC), Adam Foote (Toronto, ON), Ed Jovanovski (Windsor, ON), Al MacInnis (Inverness, NS) Rob Blake (Simcoe, ON), Scott Niedermayer (Cranbrook, BC) and Chris Pronger (Dryden, ON)

Forwards: Theoren Fleury (Russell, MB), Simon Gagne (Ste-Foy, QC), Jarome Iginla (Edmonton, AB), Eric Lindros (Toronto, ON), Joe Nieuwendyk (Oshawa, ON), Michael Peca (Toronto, ON), Paul Kariya (Vancouver, BC), Mario Lemieux (Montreal, QC), Owen Nolan (Thorold, ON), Joe Sakic (Burnaby, BC), Steve Yzerman (Nepean, ON), Brendan Shanahan (Toronto, ON), and Ryan Smyth (Banff, AB)

"We are extremely excited and proud to name our roster of 23 players that will compete for Canada at the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City, " said Wayne Gretzky, Executive Director of Team Canada. "We are very fortunate in Canada to have the opportunity to choose from a pool of many great Canadian players, which made the decisions a difficult process. We believe that the group of players we have selected represents one of Canada’s greatest international hockey teams, and we look forward to competing this February."

Last edited by Nic Name; 01-28-2002 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 01-29-2002, 10:28 AM   #29
kaleidoscopic ziggurat
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bahahaha the yonge/dundas complex. lets see if i can describe this modern piece of architectural mastery...

big pile of dirt. cheaply constructed wooden walls enclosing the construction compound. on hold indefinatly while zoning laws are wrangled over.

but... the one part they did make is the glorious eyesore that faces south on dundas right at yonge. yep, to commemerate the filling of several pockets, developers have erected the world's most nauseating billboard complex solely for displaying television ads and other gobbledygook with the intention of causing severe ocular pain. at night the whole region of town lights up in a kaleidoscopic miasma of capitalist colours... wonderful, really it is.

where are you getting all these pieces of tourist propaganda anyhow?

at least there's one thing we're sure of.. we're good at hockey.. maybe not the home team [the maple leaves? leafs? they cant even spell] but who cares.. its the hometowners that matter.

not that i'll debate that point, not being of the sportsfan persuasion.
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:35 AM   #30
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When I was in Toronto, I always made it a point of casually yelling "Hockey sucks!" and then looking all innocent. Sean (a friend up there) told me that it generally got a lot of looks. Not that I was really paying attention - I'd usually jerk my head to appear as if I was looking for the idiot that said it. Ah, bars are fun.
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