Politicians who are legitimately stupid rarely get elected.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Problem 1: Child-out-of-wedlock is similar to rape.

I would love to see an assessment which produces a scatter graph that gets at what activities people see as more "evil" than others. I have this gut feeling that these nutters would place consensual pre-marital /extra-marital sex too damn close to rape, but we'd also be surprised at other human activities which get a pass or an over-reaction.

[Clodfobble]

I wonder if the misstep is not what people think it is, here. I imagine, for example, that his daughter was underage when she got knocked up. What if he was about to say that in her situation it was statutory rape--but she married the guy after all, and it wouldn't make for a very nice Thanksgiving if he accidentally got his son-in-law incarcerated years after the fact.

Still, as a supposed victim of statutory "rape" myself, I know firsthand that the lines are a lot blurrier when it comes to consensual underage vs. forcible. They are still nothing alike.

[infinite monkey]

Then he should have explained that. In your scenario, is he actually ashamed that his underage daughter sinned, wasn't pure?

[Cyber Wolf]

At what point will he schedule her stoning then? The book most of these guys claim to follow as the only guide to life they need says unmarried mothers should be stoned.

Or would he (or the rest of them) fess up to cherry-picking the parts that suit them/their situation best?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

Then he should have explained that. In your scenario, is he actually ashamed that his underage daughter sinned, wasn't pure?

No no, because the woman is too stupid/innocent to make any decision regarding sex. That's why it's always rape, unless the man gets God's permission and marries her first.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I can't believe we're having discussions about the scientific validity of that pasty old white man's statement, when all over the world cats are sneaking into babies' cribs and stealing their breath!

--a public service announcement brought to you by Old Husband's Tales, Inc.

Ohhh, Infi you insensitive bitch. That was low. You know damn well that my cat's breath was stolen by a baby in the towers on 9/11.
--a public service announcement brought to you by Tired Old Internet Memes, Inc.

[tw]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm finding it really hard to stay away from religion here, which will undoubtedly cause me to offend just about every body, so i think I'd better stop.

Nonsense. No matter what your religious belief, it must have zero affect on anyone else. Satanic is the man who imposes his religion on anyone else.

Religion is only a relationship between you and your god. Even your church is only a adviser who says at the end the day, "Only you have the correct beliefs." Does not matter if you believe something different from the pastor or church. His job, at the end of the day, is to respect the only relevant relationship - between you and your god.

A church that expels parishioners (because they have different religious beliefs) is the only evil party. If your religious opinions offend anyone else, then that other person is evil. Because your religion is never imposed on them. And their beliefs never imposed on you. Same concepts apply to any non-Satanic person anywhere in the world.

Satan loves when the Pope orders all American legislatures to impose Catholic doctrine on all Americans. No wonder this Pope also all but protected pedophilia. Another example of religion imposing their dogma on all others. Because the Church is even more important than god. And because those concepts even justify the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition.

No wonder women cannot be trusted in any position of authority in Satan's favorite religions.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by tw

snip--

Reveiw the science. Statistics suggest that women are more likely to become pregnant from sex that occurs during greater emotion. That applies both to rape and to illicit sex (martial cheating). Yes, the pretty boy lover is more often likely to get a wife pregnant than the husband. So why did Congressman Akins recite a conclusion without first learning science? What does he use to make conclusions? Logical reasoning or ideology from the political agenda?

--snip

Good to see you back in this thread again, tw.

Care to back up your statement now?

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

Care to back up your statement now?

Nope.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

You'd be amazed how many of our cultures' assumptions about gender originate with that medieval misundrstanding of female organs.

What? that's crazy talk, we all know they don't exist.

Oh dear, I'm so embarrassed. I misread what you wrote. I thought you wrote female orgasms.


I only remember two illegitimate rapes. Both cases involve consensual sex until they were caught, one by a cop and the other by a relative of the girl. In both cases the girl claimed she was being raped.

[DanaC]

I would imagine that the closer society moves towards a right-wing christian ideal, the more 'illegitimate' rapes there will be. As the social consequences for the woman of extra-marital or pre-marital sex increase there would be a greater need to explain it away by designating it as non-consensual.

This may well mean that in stricter families and communities there is a greater risk of consensual sex being classified as non-consensual. Which could then feed back into that family and community and form a greater suspicion of women's claims of rape.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by tw

Nope.

I am unsurprised.

The statement is unsupportable; the statement is false. When you repeat lies like this you severely damage your credibility. You double the damage when (in the same post, no less) you assail someone for doing the same thing:

So what does that say about Akin? Well proven science says his ideological beliefs are wrong. Why then did he also reiterate hearsay(also called junk science) to justify his political agenda? Is he an adult who knows from facts and logical reasoning? Or a child who only recites what the 'powers that be' told him to believe.

Children know mostly from memory - what they were told. Adults use part of the brain that forms after the age of 16. And therefore learn why knowledge from hearsay or observation is bogus.

You've got a lot going for you tw. You squander much of it with such hypocrisy.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by DanaC

right-wing christian ideal

Four words were never more mis-matched.

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

The statement is unsupportable; the statement is false.

Of course it isn't. Considering the number of statements I have made so contrary to popular belief (ie predicting Desert Storm and its response months in advance, the mythical Saddam WMDs, a financial morass called AIG, stupidity of the Chevy Volt, actual cost of Mission Accomplished, escalating military tensions between China and its neighbors, etc). Since overwhelmingly unpopular statements have been proven correct so often, then you should accuse with caution. Or at least first learn some facts rather than entertain a feeling. The emotional only remember how unpopular those statement were; and forget unpopular statements were also the accurate ones.

Facts come from research into infidelity and propagation of the species. Long known was that infidelity and rape tends to result in a higher fertility. That was never disputed. Researchers have been asking why. Genetic diversity is considered important for the advancement of the species. For example, one in five children are sired by someone other than the wife's spouse. A number that has held consistent even during the 1950s when adults were so more 'moral'. The resulting diversity is considered genetically healthy. A trend that begs the current hypothesis.

A higher fertility rate during rape or infidelity creates increased genetic diversity. Undisputed is the higher fertility rate. The outstanding question is why and how important that would be for survival of the species.

Research with animals in England and Australia both demonstrated that the male who "copulatory ambushes" the female also have sperm with higher fertility rates. The romancing mate or 'pretty boy' male tends to be less fertile. In this case, the rapist and not the victim is more fertile. Bottom line conclusion remains despite unsubstantiated and speculative denials.

Also noted; women tend to become more interested or flirtatious with 'other' males around the time of ovulation. Not only spending more attention on them. But also having increased sexual fantasies about them. Another reason why women tend to have more children from extramarital liaisons - desired or forced.

Other interesting trends also exist. Men under increased stress prefer heavier women with bigger butts. Another trend also believed related to species survival.

Adults who suffered through famines as children or adolescents tend to have fatter children. Also unpopular because many only feel it must be wrong rather than first learn facts. How can a famine decades earlier change genetics? Another question not yet answered. But that trend is also clear. Another trend suspected to be related to survival of the species.

Do you feel those are also wrong ... without first learning facts? Responsible denial means first learning facts before condemning. Shame on you for posting cheapshots.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I would imagine that the closer society moves towards a right-wing christian ideal, the more 'illegitimate' rapes there will be. As the social consequences for the woman of extra-marital or pre-marital sex increase there would be a greater need to explain it away by designating it as non-consensual.

This may well mean that in stricter families and communities there is a greater risk of consensual sex being classified as non-consensual. Which could then feed back into that family and community and form a greater suspicion of women's claims of rape.

Historically, rape has been seen less as a violation of a woman than as a theft from a man to whom that woman belonged, either her husband or her father, who suffered an economic loss (a woman’s marriageability spoiled) and an insult to his honor. There was also the problem of bastard children, who were considered a social burden; the Athenian state, for example, was primarily occupied with protecting bloodlines, and so treated rape and adultery the same way. Hammurabi’s code describes rape victims as adulterers; English law of the seventeenth century takes a similar position. In Puritan Massachusetts, any woman pregnant through rape was prosecuted for fornication. In the nineteenth century, the American courts remained biased toward protecting men who might be falsely accused. In order to prove that an encounter was a rape, the woman had to demonstrate that she had resisted and been overcome; she usually had to show bodily harm as evidence of her struggle; and she had somehow to prove that the man had ejaculated inside her.

In the early and mid-twentieth century, rape remained underreported because women feared adverse consequences if they spoke out about what had happened to them. In 1938, Dr. Aleck Bourne was put on trial in England for performing an abortion on a fourteen-year-old rape victim, and his acquittal reflected a populist movement to liberalize abortion, especially for rape victims. The trial was widely covered in the U.S. and led to open debate about the validity of abortion; the following year, the first hospital abortion committee in the United States was formed, and by the nineteen-fifties these committees were ubiquitous. Although they approved only “therapeutic” abortions, they increasingly accepted the recommendations of psychiatrists who said a woman’s mental health was endangered by her pregnancy. Well-connected and well-to-do women could obtain psychiatric diagnoses fairly easily, and so abortions became the province of the privileged. Ordinary rape victims often had to prove that they were nearly deranged. Some were diagnosed as licentious, and had to consent to sterilization to obtain abortions.

much more