Do car-sharing schemes work in the States?

Cyclefrance · 03-20-2006, 09:09 AM

Our government has just agreed to a car-sharing lane scheme in the north of England, arguing that these have proved successful in the USA.

Is that true?

wolf · 03-20-2006, 09:15 AM

Only if you're a city-dwelling hippie and nobody else in your group wants the car on Tuesday.

SteveDallas · 03-20-2006, 09:35 AM

I don't have personal experience but a couple people I know who are in this one think it's great.

dar512 · 03-20-2006, 09:38 AM

I think he's talking about commuter lanes. They have them in Seattle. Do they actually encourage people to car-pool? I don't think so. But if you are the sort to car-pool it really cuts down on the drive time.

SteveDallas · 03-20-2006, 09:43 AM

Oh yeah, I could actually look at the link next time. I dunno.. there aren't a lot where I drive. Although there is a lane restricted for buses on Chestnut Street in Center City, which people seem to ignore fairly often.

wolf · 03-20-2006, 10:08 AM

Shows me I should read the article rather than commenting on what I think the post is about.

HOV lanes are either a blessing or a curse, depending upon how many people you have in the car.

I've never car-pooled. I either didn't have enough co-workers in the company fow which I was working , or nobody lived out my way. I don't think there are any car pool lanes/routes here in the Phila. area. I only see them when I drive through New York City, and down towards D.C.

slang · 03-20-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

...... in the north of England, arguing that these have proved successful in the USA.

That depends on your definition of "successful".

It seems to me that these lanes are in the Hartford, Ct. area on highway 84 outside the metro areas. IIRC there were times during heavy traffic that one would see one car using this lane just blasting up the highway laughing and mocking the slower moving traffic. They also seemed to run quite a distance away from Hartford.

You dont think about using that lane until you're stuck in traffic alone and you see someone whiz by. The lane is normally clear so in that moment that you think "wow, if I had someone else with me I could be moving right now instead of parking" that car is long gone.

glatt · 03-20-2006, 10:57 AM

Here in the DC area, they are everywhere. I don't drive my car during rush hour, so I can't comment on them first hand.

But that won't stop me from posting.

As Wolf says, HOV lanes are awesome if you have a full car and can take one. They generally move without congestion.

We also have informal lines of people, called slugs, who line up at central locations downtown and ride with random strangers who pull up to the curb and drive them to their drop off point in the suburbs. That allows the single driver to use the HOV lanes by picking up living breathing human bodies before they get to the HOV lanes. The slugs get a free ride most of the way into town in the morning, and a free ride most of the way home at night. It's a win win situation. I'm amazed that nobody has been raped or murdered by crazies. It seems to work extremely well.

Cyclefrance · 03-20-2006, 11:15 AM

So nobody is making a killing selling inflatable passengers then....?

PS - apologies for the bad thread title - should have included the word 'lanes' there as well.

Beestie · 03-20-2006, 11:25 AM

I also commute in the DC area which, as glatt indicates, has made heavy use of HOV (high-occupancy vehicle) lanes. Some lanes require 3 occupants per vehicle and some only require 2 occupants.

I do not believe they work. Let's take 395 in Virginia as an example. Highway 395 runs from basically the White House in the center of DC to points south. 395 is broken into 3 sections: a Northbound lane (2-4 lanes) that anyone can use, a Southbound lane (3-4 lanes) that anyone can use and a center, reversable lane (2 lanes) that is HOV northbound from 6am to 9am and southbound from 3pm to 6pm. Outside the HOV hours, anyone can use the HOV lanes which flips direction at noon and midnight.

While HOV may in fact produce the result of "fewer cars on the road" and thereby "prove" that the goal of reducing congestion is met but I would counter that the average commute time across all drivers (HOV and non-HOV) actually increases which more than offsets the "feel good" metric of reduced congestion.

The problem is that not enough people, for whatever reason, use it. So while 10-15% of folks get home 30% faster, the other 85% of drivers' commute time increases by the same proportion resulting in longer commutes, more fuel consumption and more pollution than if the HOV lanes were opened to all drivers and the traffic could adjust between the lanes to achieve the most effective distribution of cars between HOV and non-HOV lanes.

The HOV lanes on 395 are grossly underused (the 3 people per car makes it very difficult to qualify for) and, during either rush hour, the non-HOV lanes are a parking lot and the HOV lanes are full of tumbleweeds. I usually stay late at work to time reaching the HOV entrance at 5:55 pm when the HOV is lifted because no one is on it at that time.

But no government official will speak out against HOV because the money to build HOV lanes is a gift from the Federal government to the states in exchange for enforcing HOV. So the states couldn't care less if it works or not because they need the money to build new roads. So no one at the state level will acknowledge the problem HOV creates lest they risk being cut off from the Federal money.

Now, I only know about the HOV lanes in my experience so there may be cases where it works very well. I just don't think the blanket statement that "it works great in the US" is really true. The government might think it works great but no one is asking the drivers who have to live with traffic decisions made by people who are driven to work in limousines.

richlevy · 03-20-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

So nobody is making a killing selling inflatable passengers then....?

And do they charge extra for the anatomically correct ones?

xoxoxoBruce · 03-20-2006, 08:20 PM

The HOV lane s around Hartford, CT, are ok during rush hours but off peak they should be avoided. Invariably you'll get stuck behind someone doing slightly less than the speed limit, while the non-HOV lanes are running 10, 20 and 30mph over.

Rock Steady · 03-21-2006, 04:59 AM

The HOV lanes take train passangers and make them car poolers. Doesn't help.

CA did something really dumb: hybrids can now use HOV with one passenger. dumb.

I can almost always avoid rush hour.

Beestie · 03-21-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Steady

CA did something really dumb: hybrids can now use HOV with one passenger. dumb.

Virginia did the same thing. Then they had to cut new license plates to issue to the hybrids. Now, when the cops see a one-person car in HOV they have to first look at the plates to see if they should chase them or not. The cops are getting tired of all this crap. Dumb is too polite.

farfromhome · 03-27-2006, 12:50 AM

I've never car-pooled. I either didn't have enough co-workers in the company fow which I was working , or nobody lived out my way. I don't think there are any car pool lanes/routes here in the Phila. area. I only see them when I drive through New York City, and down towards D.C.[/quote]

This is just a mean thought. Maybe nobody wants to carpool with you. I think I could have a lively commute with you for a day or two. But I don't want to die. And I know you'd be packing.

03-20-2006, 09:09 AM	#1
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	Do car-sharing schemes work in the States? Our government has just agreed to a car-sharing lane scheme in the north of England, arguing that these have proved successful in the USA. Is that true? __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

03-20-2006, 09:15 AM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Only if you're a city-dwelling hippie and nobody else in your group wants the car on Tuesday. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-20-2006, 09:38 AM	#4
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	I think he's talking about commuter lanes. They have them in Seattle. Do they actually encourage people to car-pool? I don't think so. But if you are the sort to car-pool it really cuts down on the drive time. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

03-20-2006, 10:08 AM	#6
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Shows me I should read the article rather than commenting on what I think the post is about. HOV lanes are either a blessing or a curse, depending upon how many people you have in the car. I've never car-pooled. I either didn't have enough co-workers in the company fow which I was working , or nobody lived out my way. I don't think there are any car pool lanes/routes here in the Phila. area. I only see them when I drive through New York City, and down towards D.C. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-20-2006, 11:15 AM	#9
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	So nobody is making a killing selling inflatable passengers then....? PS - apologies for the bad thread title - should have included the word 'lanes' there as well. __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears Last edited by Cyclefrance; 03-20-2006 at 11:19 AM.

03-20-2006, 09:35 AM	#3
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	I don't have personal experience but a couple people I know who are in this one think it's great.

03-20-2006, 09:43 AM	#5
SteveDallas Your Bartender Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Philly Burbs, PA Posts: 7,651	Oh yeah, I could actually look at the link next time. I dunno.. there aren't a lot where I drive. Although there is a lane restricted for buses on Chestnut Street in Center City, which people seem to ignore fairly often.

03-20-2006, 10:57 AM	#8
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Here in the DC area, they are everywhere. I don't drive my car during rush hour, so I can't comment on them first hand. But that won't stop me from posting. As Wolf says, HOV lanes are awesome if you have a full car and can take one. They generally move without congestion. We also have informal lines of people, called slugs, who line up at central locations downtown and ride with random strangers who pull up to the curb and drive them to their drop off point in the suburbs. That allows the single driver to use the HOV lanes by picking up living breathing human bodies before they get to the HOV lanes. The slugs get a free ride most of the way into town in the morning, and a free ride most of the way home at night. It's a win win situation. I'm amazed that nobody has been raped or murdered by crazies. It seems to work extremely well.

03-20-2006, 11:25 AM	#10
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I also commute in the DC area which, as glatt indicates, has made heavy use of HOV (high-occupancy vehicle) lanes. Some lanes require 3 occupants per vehicle and some only require 2 occupants. I do not believe they work. Let's take 395 in Virginia as an example. Highway 395 runs from basically the White House in the center of DC to points south. 395 is broken into 3 sections: a Northbound lane (2-4 lanes) that anyone can use, a Southbound lane (3-4 lanes) that anyone can use and a center, reversable lane (2 lanes) that is HOV northbound from 6am to 9am and southbound from 3pm to 6pm. Outside the HOV hours, anyone can use the HOV lanes which flips direction at noon and midnight. While HOV may in fact produce the result of "fewer cars on the road" and thereby "prove" that the goal of reducing congestion is met but I would counter that the average commute time across all drivers (HOV and non-HOV) actually increases which more than offsets the "feel good" metric of reduced congestion. The problem is that not enough people, for whatever reason, use it. So while 10-15% of folks get home 30% faster, the other 85% of drivers' commute time increases by the same proportion resulting in longer commutes, more fuel consumption and more pollution than if the HOV lanes were opened to all drivers and the traffic could adjust between the lanes to achieve the most effective distribution of cars between HOV and non-HOV lanes. The HOV lanes on 395 are grossly underused (the 3 people per car makes it very difficult to qualify for) and, during either rush hour, the non-HOV lanes are a parking lot and the HOV lanes are full of tumbleweeds. I usually stay late at work to time reaching the HOV entrance at 5:55 pm when the HOV is lifted because no one is on it at that time. But no government official will speak out against HOV because the money to build HOV lanes is a gift from the Federal government to the states in exchange for enforcing HOV. So the states couldn't care less if it works or not because they need the money to build new roads. So no one at the state level will acknowledge the problem HOV creates lest they risk being cut off from the Federal money. Now, I only know about the HOV lanes in my experience so there may be cases where it works very well. I just don't think the blanket statement that "it works great in the US" is really true. The government might think it works great but no one is asking the drivers who have to live with traffic decisions made by people who are driven to work in limousines. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

03-20-2006, 08:20 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The HOV lane s around Hartford, CT, are ok during rush hours but off peak they should be avoided. Invariably you'll get stuck behind someone doing slightly less than the speed limit, while the non-HOV lanes are running 10, 20 and 30mph over. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-21-2006, 04:59 AM	#13
Rock Steady Day Tripper Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 784	The HOV lanes take train passangers and make them car poolers. Doesn't help. CA did something really dumb: hybrids can now use HOV with one passenger. dumb. I can almost always avoid rush hour. __________________

03-27-2006, 12:50 AM	#15
farfromhome Management Consultant Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland,OR/Conesus,NY Posts: 166	I've never car-pooled. I either didn't have enough co-workers in the company fow which I was working , or nobody lived out my way. I don't think there are any car pool lanes/routes here in the Phila. area. I only see them when I drive through New York City, and down towards D.C.[/quote] This is just a mean thought. Maybe nobody wants to carpool with you. I think I could have a lively commute with you for a day or two. But I don't want to die. And I know you'd be packing. __________________ When you ain't got nothing-you ain't got nothing to lose.

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