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Old 08-18-2017, 01:17 PM   #16
glatt
 
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I don't feel very strongly about statues because I figure you don't have to look at one if you don't want to. You do have to go to the school and use the roads.

Regarding your one sentence in the post above. I understand where you are coming from. Jefferson and Washington were slave owners from the South. For me, the difference with them is that they never took up arms against the United States.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:22 PM   #17
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What if your tax dollar is used to maintain the statue?
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:39 PM   #18
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I still don't care if my tax dollar is being spent. Statues don't cost much to maintain. But I wouldn't lift a finger to protect a statue of Lee.
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Old 08-18-2017, 02:48 PM   #19
henry quirk
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"Communists?"

Oh, I'm sorry, 'communist' has too much baggage attached.

'Marxists' is what *'they' prefer to be called.









*Black Lives Matter, Antifa, etc., the folks who *ahem* 'opposed' the race-haters in Charlotte(sville)
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:01 PM   #20
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"Anyone standing up to a Nazi has to be a Communist, I guess."

As the race-haters weren't gonna do anything of consequence ('cept speak freely), only three groups of folks were gonna show up to counter 'em: Marxists (tryin' to be 'correct' in my descriptors) who don't give two shits about the statue, folks with way too much time on their hands and too little life to fill that time, and the lethally thin-skinned.

You know as well as me who showed up (this time).
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:07 PM   #21
henry quirk
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"wouldn't lift a finger to protect a statue of Lee"

You aren't obligated to. What you are obligated to do is leave it alone. And what the mayors and city councils of relevant communities ought to be obligated to do is put the question to folks who live in those communities.

If, for example, the question had been put to the people of New Orleans or Orleans Parish, those four statues removed by decree probably would be standing today.
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
Should any statues of Lee be removed?
Yes, take them all down and replace them with statues of naked women.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
"Communists?"
Oh, I'm sorry, 'communist' has too much baggage attached.
'Marxists' is what *'they' prefer to be called.
*Black Lives Matter, Antifa, etc., the folks who *ahem* 'opposed' the race-haters in Charlotte(sville)
That's news to me, I hadn't heard any of them describe themselves as Marxist. They prefer to be called, or what you prefer to call them?
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:48 PM   #23
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They are not equivalent.

The left/liberals are often accused of engaging in moral equivalency when they try to understand the root of something like islamic terrorism.

An alt right terrorist just drove a vehicle into a crowd of protestors, killing a young woman.

The protestors are arguing against racism, and against the glorification of historical figures who led a bitter and bloody fight against the rest of the country to defend their right to own human beings.

The people attending the alt right rally were marching along shouting racist slogans ("The Jews will not replace us") giving nazi salutes and waving swastikas and confederate flags - expressing a moral and ideological loyalty to fascism.

On one side a fairly disparate group, with multiple viewpoints, united by a desire to draw a line between the society America currently has and a former, though not that distant age, in which white people could own and brutalise black people.

On the other side, a tooled up mini-militia waving nazi flags and shouting nazi slogans. Prepared to kill to protect their image of the South.


I am sickened. Truly sickened. How many of our grandparents fought, suffered, or died, in the war against the nazi butchers?

Not sickened by the fact that this could happen - it can happen, it does happen - here and in Europe, and in the US - these marches and rallies spring up and there is violence. A right wing nationalist murdered an MP not so long ago and so far from where I live.

I am sickened to hear the president of the USA struggle to condemn them, and then cast equal blame onto the other side.
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Last edited by DanaC; 08-18-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #24
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Yup my dad went to Korea to fight the Commu-- ah shit.

Well my great great great grandad fought on the Union side. Fuck Lee!
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:26 PM   #25
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One other point:

We talk about 'statues' as part of our 'history' -


But the atrocity of slave ownership is so recent that the last generation of slaves are close enough to us to have been recorded speaking.

These former slaves were recorded in the 1930s - when my father was a small child, and my grandma a vibrant woman in her 20s.

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Old 08-18-2017, 05:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Yup my dad went to Korea to fight the Commu-- ah shit.

Yes. But that is not what was facing off against the alt right rally. The protest march was a disparate collection of variously left wing people. And some who probably wouldn't even consider themselves particularly left-wing - just anti-fascism.

The alt right rally was a large congregation of (mainly) men from white supremacist and neo nazi groups, with many chanting nazi slogans - chants about the danger of Jews.

This was not communists versus nazis.
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:45 PM   #27
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Man In Center Of Political Spectrum Under Impression He Less Obnoxious
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MT. VERNON, OH—Loudly explaining to anyone within earshot that both the left and right were ruining the level of discourse in this country, Jesse Levin, a man firmly in the center of the political spectrum, is under the impression that he is less obnoxious than those with more partisan viewpoints, sources reported Friday. “We’re never going to get anywhere in this country if you lunatics keep foaming at the mouth about some one-sided fantasyland,” said Levin, 32, who despite characterizing those who do not stand precisely equidistant between two ideological extremes as “raving fanatics” and repeatedly interrupting people before they can fully explain their “nutjob” beliefs, reportedly seems to think he is, in fact, much more civil. “If you idiots stopped throwing temper tantrums every time some little thing doesn’t pass your precious purity test and came back down to the real, complicated world with the rest of us, we’d all be a lot better off.” At press time, Levin was butting in on a lively social media debate to tell two total strangers that they were “everything that’s wrong with this country.”
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:54 PM   #28
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Hahahaha. That really made me laugh. Like, a full on snort that startled the dog.
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:57 PM   #29
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Oh hell, that entire page is hysterical.

I love this one:

Quote:
Nation Rallies Around Ronald McDonald Statue That Embodies Country’s True Heritage
Quote:
WASHINGTON—Affirming their unwavering support for the fast food mascot, Americans rallied around a Ronald McDonald statue Thursday that they said embodied the country’s true heritage. “We refuse to let what this clown represents to our people and our way of life just be snuffed out,” said Jackson, MS resident Martin Kerpatch, one of the many demonstrators at a McDonald’s PlayPlace who had locked arms in a circle around the fiberglass sculpture of the iconic character relaxing on a bench. “You may not support everything this statue represents—we acknowledge that menu items such as the Arch Deluxe and McDLT complicate Ronald McDonald’s legacy—but to erase it from history would mean erasing the Big Mac and Chicken McNuggets as well. And we will never allow that to happen.” At press time, the protestors had begun swaying and chanting, “Ba da ba ba bah! I’m lovin’ it! Ba da ba ba bah! I’m lovin’ it!”
That is some funny shit.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:10 PM   #30
Gravdigr
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That is teh funneh.


Quote:
“If you idiots stopped throwing temper tantrums every time some little thing doesn’t pass your precious purity test and came back down to the real, complicated world with the rest of us, we’d all be a lot better off.”
I cannot help but think that that part of his statement makes a certain kind sense.
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