First Human Cloned

hermit22 · 12-27-2002, 07:35 PM

So I'm sure most of you have heard about the first human cloning. Whle the claims are pretty dubious, what does everyone think?

Personally, I'd love to have a clone. I just hope I wouldn't end up like Michael Keaton if it happened.

ladysycamore · 12-27-2002, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hermit22
So I'm sure most of you have heard about the first human cloning. Whle the claims are pretty dubious, what does everyone think?

*quoted from article*

Quote:

"Clonaid was founded five years ago by a self-styled prophet known as Rael, formerly a French sports journalist called Claude Vorihon, who established a sect on the belief that human beings were first cloned 25,000 years ago by extra-terrestrials."

Sounds freaky, scary and crazy all wrapped up in one neat little package, IMO. :p

When's the mother ship due to arrive?

wolf · 12-27-2002, 09:18 PM

A friend of mine is a cult deprog.... uh, 'scuse me ... "exit counsellor."

I'm fairly sure he's had contact with these guys ... I remember having a discussion with him when the cloning experiment was announced some months back. I'll check with him for a refresher on the info to see if there's anything of particular interest or amusement about this guy. Rael has apparently managed to amass a large following, with a large amount of money. I'll letcha know.

Hubris Boy · 12-27-2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hermit22
Whle the claims are pretty dubious, what does everyone think?

Well... I'm not a Libertarian, so it's difficult for me to form opinions on subjects I know nothing about. But I find it curious that the host mother for the pregnancy was also the genetic donor for the clone. Won't this make traditional genetic testing problematic?

If anybody here is better-learned than I about the vagaries of mitochondrial DNA (and that would probably be just about everybody), I'd appreciate hearing more about it.

wolf · 12-28-2002, 12:40 AM

The guy who heads up the cult indeed is a French former sports writer and race car driver. He apparently had an experience while driving home following a pro rally event he had raced in. (Pro rally is usually an endurance event, so read this as "driving home overexhausted after not having slept for two days".) He claims to have been approached by an olive-skinned being, who explained many things to him, including the fact that humans were cloned and placed on earth by a race of alien beings. (gotta wonder. If we were cloned, why don't the aliens look like us? oh well.)

Anyway ... the cult claims a membership of around 40-50K, but the real numbers are more likely down around 8K (which is still pretty serious numbers for a UFO cult.

He's been watching these guys on and off for years and is suspecting a hoax.

One thing I was trying to find out ... In addition to the stories on the Raelians, wasn't there a media splash about six months ago about an Italian doc who was claiming successful implantation of a cloned human embryo?

jaguar · 12-28-2002, 12:47 AM

Yea but he killed it off pretty quick, for legal reasons if i remember correctly. I think this one is bullshit but i'll tell you one thing - if they fuck up teh first one, and there will be a first one, there won't be another for a long, long time.

slang · 12-31-2002, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hermit22
Whle the claims are pretty dubious, what does everyone think?

I think this is opening the door to many more problems. I dont think we are ready for this.

elSicomoro · 01-01-2003, 01:45 PM

I'm from the Show-Me State...you gotta show me (the supporting evidence).

If this cloned human actually exists (and I don't think it does), the effects could be incredibly widespread: social, moral, religious, scientific, philosophical, legal, governmental, etc. And I agree with slang...we're not ready.

jaguar · 01-02-2003, 01:50 AM

We can never be *ready* for such a sociological change, I mean the implications do, as sic said cover nearly every facet of human life. Never have i seena case where a society ahs prepped for a change, we just adjust slowly over time and with every change most, then a few will rebel against it (*coughcoughSenaterLottcoughcough*)
It's one of many revolutions that will fundamentally change the way everything about our society over the next 50 years. Nanotech will destroy secondary economies overnight, biological interfaces will redefine what is human and what is not, as will AI, TIA and cognitive computer systems coupled with increased computerization will obliterate privacy, apart from the possibility of widespread quantum cryptography, creating the ultimate data safe for an age where data is the only true asset. We shall live in interesting times.

juju · 01-02-2003, 02:04 AM

What potential pitfalls are you all talking about? I don't see any, aside from a few embryos accidentally dying (big whoop), and the fact that it would be a significant setback for genetic diversity if it were done frequently enough. Aside from that, what are you all so worried about? If you clone a 50-year-old man, you'll get a 50-year-old baby, who will likely die when he is 30. Where's the fun in creating humans with limited lifespans?

jaguar · 01-02-2003, 06:38 AM

At some point that limitation will be overcome. ok, take a more begine example. Lets say teh husband in a marrige is infertile and they want to have kids, so they clone the mother. You're then going to ahve a kid that looks exactly like the mother - for the father, he's watching someone exactly like the woman he fell in love with grow up - as his daughter. It all gets a little fucked up and really does push some boundries to say the least. I mean the the whole 'designer baby' thing which is in a similar catagory also is going ot ahve a huge -and IMHO negative impact.

wolf · 01-02-2003, 12:33 PM

Think also of the legal issues involved ... what is the ability to inherit of created life ...

And what are the rights of an individual who is cloned without his/her knowledge ... that child would be his/her genetic offspring, and claims for a share of an inheritance could be made.

I was discussing this the other night, but unfortuntely didn't keep notes of the conversation. I do recall it leading to a conversation about the made-for-TV movie from the 70s, Parts: The Clonus Horror, though.

hermit22 · 01-02-2003, 08:36 PM

I think the legal issues would be an important consideration. Companies own the rights to the plants they've genetically engineered, and have even won lawsuits against farmers who have had the seeds from these genetically engineered plants blown into their land. (At least, that was the claim.)

So then, would the company that did the cloning own the right to a person?

God · 01-02-2003, 09:24 PM

(God thinks to himself)

They are cloning people today, tomorrow they will be using the Star trek "genesis" machine to make planets.

It wont be long and I will be as irrelevant as Al Gore.

elSicomoro · 01-02-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hermit22
So then, would the company that did the cloning own the right to a person?

I would say no on this, b/c that would be tantamount to slavery.

12-27-2002, 07:35 PM	#1
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	First Human Cloned So I'm sure most of you have heard about the first human cloning. Whle the claims are pretty dubious, what does everyone think? Personally, I'd love to have a clone. I just hope I wouldn't end up like Michael Keaton if it happened. __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

12-27-2002, 09:18 PM	#3
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	A friend of mine is a cult deprog.... uh, 'scuse me ... "exit counsellor." I'm fairly sure he's had contact with these guys ... I remember having a discussion with him when the cloning experiment was announced some months back. I'll check with him for a refresher on the info to see if there's anything of particular interest or amusement about this guy. Rael has apparently managed to amass a large following, with a large amount of money. I'll letcha know. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-28-2002, 12:40 AM	#5
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Talked to my Cult Expert The guy who heads up the cult indeed is a French former sports writer and race car driver. He apparently had an experience while driving home following a pro rally event he had raced in. (Pro rally is usually an endurance event, so read this as "driving home overexhausted after not having slept for two days".) He claims to have been approached by an olive-skinned being, who explained many things to him, including the fact that humans were cloned and placed on earth by a race of alien beings. (gotta wonder. If we were cloned, why don't the aliens look like us? oh well.) Anyway ... the cult claims a membership of around 40-50K, but the real numbers are more likely down around 8K (which is still pretty serious numbers for a UFO cult. He's been watching these guys on and off for years and is suspecting a hoax. One thing I was trying to find out ... In addition to the stories on the Raelians, wasn't there a media splash about six months ago about an Italian doc who was claiming successful implantation of a cloned human embryo? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-28-2002, 12:47 AM	#6
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Yea but he killed it off pretty quick, for legal reasons if i remember correctly. I think this one is bullshit but i'll tell you one thing - if they fuck up teh first one, and there will be a first one, there won't be another for a long, long time. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-02-2003, 01:50 AM	#9
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	We can never be ready for such a sociological change, I mean the implications do, as sic said cover nearly every facet of human life. Never have i seena case where a society ahs prepped for a change, we just adjust slowly over time and with every change most, then a few will rebel against it (coughcoughSenaterLottcoughcough) It's one of many revolutions that will fundamentally change the way everything about our society over the next 50 years. Nanotech will destroy secondary economies overnight, biological interfaces will redefine what is human and what is not, as will AI, TIA and cognitive computer systems coupled with increased computerization will obliterate privacy, apart from the possibility of widespread quantum cryptography, creating the ultimate data safe for an age where data is the only true asset. We shall live in interesting times. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-01-2003, 01:45 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I'm from the Show-Me State...you gotta show me (the supporting evidence). If this cloned human actually exists (and I don't think it does), the effects could be incredibly widespread: social, moral, religious, scientific, philosophical, legal, governmental, etc. And I agree with slang...we're not ready.

01-02-2003, 02:04 AM	#10
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	What potential pitfalls are you all talking about? I don't see any, aside from a few embryos accidentally dying (big whoop), and the fact that it would be a significant setback for genetic diversity if it were done frequently enough. Aside from that, what are you all so worried about? If you clone a 50-year-old man, you'll get a 50-year-old baby, who will likely die when he is 30. Where's the fun in creating humans with limited lifespans?

01-02-2003, 06:38 AM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	At some point that limitation will be overcome. ok, take a more begine example. Lets say teh husband in a marrige is infertile and they want to have kids, so they clone the mother. You're then going to ahve a kid that looks exactly like the mother - for the father, he's watching someone exactly like the woman he fell in love with grow up - as his daughter. It all gets a little fucked up and really does push some boundries to say the least. I mean the the whole 'designer baby' thing which is in a similar catagory also is going ot ahve a huge -and IMHO negative impact. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-02-2003, 12:33 PM	#12
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Think also of the legal issues involved ... what is the ability to inherit of created life ... And what are the rights of an individual who is cloned without his/her knowledge ... that child would be his/her genetic offspring, and claims for a share of an inheritance could be made. I was discussing this the other night, but unfortuntely didn't keep notes of the conversation. I do recall it leading to a conversation about the made-for-TV movie from the 70s, Parts: The Clonus Horror, though. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-02-2003, 08:36 PM	#13
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	I think the legal issues would be an important consideration. Companies own the rights to the plants they've genetically engineered, and have even won lawsuits against farmers who have had the seeds from these genetically engineered plants blown into their land. (At least, that was the claim.) So then, would the company that did the cloning own the right to a person? __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

01-02-2003, 09:24 PM	#14
God Not half the God I used to be Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: everywhere but enjoy the Vets club best Posts: 120	(God thinks to himself) They are cloning people today, tomorrow they will be using the Star trek "genesis" machine to make planets. It wont be long and I will be as irrelevant as Al Gore.

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