Project Studios and Home Recording

[wst3]

Just out of curiosity, anyone out there have a home studio or project studio?

I find the whole phenomenon very interesting. The technology that is available to folks today is really amazing, especially when viewed in context with what was available just a few years ago.

I started in the recording industry back in the mid 1970s as an apprentice at an 8 track studio in my home town. What you have to realize is that these guys had just about as many tracks as some of the major labels! I don't remember the specifics any more (too bad) but the gear was "pro" level stuff. Home recording gear had not yet been "invented".

Sometime later, while I was in college, Tascam/Teac introduced the concept (least that's how I remember it<G>), with the 3340s, a 4 track deck. Their 8 track decks were still meant for pros, but sometime while I was away they introduced the 80-8 and the Model 15 console, and all of the sudden a private individual could have an 8 track studio, and the tape costs wouldn't preclude actually using it.

Today, 2" tape, which is still, by and large the industry standard, costs around $200 per reel, and a reel lasts 17 or 34 minutes, depending on the speed at which you record. Studer is selling the last of their 2 inch machines, and Otari is making noises about discontinuing thier line as well. You can, however, buy a decent 2 inch tape machine on the used market for under $5000.

In contrast, Tascam, Alesis, Fostex, Mackie, and IZ have all introduced 24 track, hard disk based systems that replace the modular digital multitracks that were recently the fad. Latest word is that Alesis will start shipping their 24 channel box in February. It will include 24 channels of analog ins and outs, plus 24 channels of digital ins and outs, and a 10BT network connection, all for an estimated street price of $2000.

And that doesn't even scratch the surface of what one can do with a computer!!! My pitiful 900MHz Athlon can play back 24 tracks without breaking a sweat. I haven't done a lot of experiments with plug-ins in that setting yet, but it doesn't appear to be too worried. I can also transfer 16 tracks from my analog tape machine all at once without a hitch.

I can't remember the last time I picked up a razorblade to edit.

And therein lies part of the problem me thinks... editing has become so darned simple that the temptation is there to edit everything till it is perfect. There are even tools that will correct intonation, you don't have to edit, or even gamble on a second take.

The upside is that, if you want to be clever you can try hundreds of edits, and hundreds of mixes, because undoing the damage is only a mouse click away! (Bonus points for anyone who remembers putting little slivers of tape all over the place so you could "undo" an edit!)

So... who is taking advantage of this "revolution". I'm curious!!!

I am, to a degree. My friends mostly think I am nuts because my primary tape deck is a 1973 MCI 2 inch 16 track, and my console is a little more modern, a Tangent from the late 70s. Both need lots of maintenance (the tape deck is currently in pieces because one of the power supplies went south and it took a whole lot of stuff with it!)

I also use the aforementioned computer, and I have the requisite stack of MIDI synthesizers... though they may be going away in the near future too. I recently picked up a copy of GigaSampler, and it certainly could replace my older MIDI samplers.

Then there are audio plug-ins that supposedly can replace all of my outboard gear... even the gear I can't afford!

What a great time to have this hobby!!!!

[elSicomoro]

I find all the analog stuff amazing. Everything is going all-digital these days. I'd love to just get my hands on a decent 4-track recorder. That, or just buy a G4 with all the accessories...then I can imitate Trent Reznor.

[Violine]

Originally posted by wst3
Just out of curiosity, anyone out there have a home studio or project studio?

....
The upside is that, if you want to be clever you can try hundreds of edits, and hundreds of mixes, because undoing the damage is only a mouse click away! (Bonus points for anyone who remembers putting little slivers of tape all over the place so you could "undo" an edit!)

I don't have a home studio, per say. But I do record live concerts (my own, usually, or friends who ask) using a portable minidisc. I have an old one - a Sony MZ-R3 - that I bought very soon after they were on the market. I am considering investing in new microphones. http://www.core-sound.com has some very interesting TINY mics that produce great recordings.

Without editing content (just removing long breaks and fading out long applause) I transfer the recordings to CD using stand alone Philips digital audio recorder.

With computerized labels and j-cards the presentation looks nice. Sound is decent - if not at saleable quality (and they are really only for archive purposes; I ditribute at $1 more than cost just to cover time).

Can I get bonus points though??? I used to work in a small theater in Swarthmore. Too small, in fact, to fit cast, orchestra and audience in the theater all at once. So we'd spend about 15 hours recording the orchestra and then about 100 hours EDITING the orchestra and play back on 2 reel-to-reel players during live performances! We had edits all over the place so the singers could take liberties and the audience could applaud/laugh longer than usual and we wouldn't get out of sync.

-- Ruth

[wst3]

Originally posted by Violine
I don't have a home studio, per say. But I do record live concerts (my own, usually, or friends who ask) using a portable minidisc. I have an old one - a Sony MZ-R3 - that I bought very soon after they were on the market. I am considering investing in new microphones. http://www.core-sound.com has some very interesting TINY mics that produce great recordings.

Well, I haven't used the Core Sound microphones, but if you take a look around, decent to very good microphones are flooding the marketplace!

Another thought... while I am no fan of any lossy compression scheme, it seems to me that you might get a huge improvement with a better preamp, depending on what you are using for microphones now.

I don't do a lot of location recording, per say, but I did record my wedding this past summer. I had some really really talented friends provide the music, and I wanted to capture it. Since I was kinda busy being the groom<G>, I just hung a Royer stereo ribbon mic way up and recorded to DAT. Except for a couple of minor level problems, it worked remarkably well.

The per say was included above because I will drag half my studio (at least that how it seems!) to locations to record local singer/songwriters for their demos. I've found that I get much better performances this way. Since they are quite comfortable in their own home the microphones don't scare them quite so much. It means a little more editing and processing, but it seems to be worth it.

Originally posted by Violine
Without editing content (just removing long breaks and fading out long applause) I transfer the recordings to CD using stand alone Philips digital audio recorder.

I'm jealous... I have that personality type that won't let me do that. The afore-mentioned wedding is still tieing up a large quantity of disk space<G>!

Originally posted by Violine
With computerized labels and j-cards the presentation looks nice. Sound is decent - if not at saleable quality (and they are really only for archive purposes; I ditribute at $1 more than cost just to cover time).

That is very nice of you! I've done that in the past, and I still end up doing it now for certain friends, but I am trying hard to convince my poor wife that we really NEED a complete recording studio in the basement<G>!

Originally posted by Violine
Can I get bonus points though??? I used to work in a small theater in Swarthmore. Too small, in fact, to fit cast, orchestra and audience in the theater all at once. So we'd spend about 15 hours recording the orchestra and then about 100 hours EDITING the orchestra and play back on 2 reel-to-reel players during live performances! We had edits all over the place so the singers could take liberties and the audience could applaud/laugh longer than usual and we wouldn't get out of sync.

OUCH!!!!! You get lots of points!!! Which theatre? (I grew up in West Chester, and have spent my whole life between Reading and Philly. My Dad worked in Morton for a spell, and he bought me my first "real" guitar at Swathmore Music.)

I can't even imagine doing the kind of editing you described... the timing is frightening!

[richlevy]

Originally posted by Violine

I don't have a home studio, per say. But I do record live concerts (my own, usually, or friends who ask) using a portable minidisc.
-- Ruth

Any chance you can post some sound files (wav or mp3?).

[Violine]

Originally posted by richlevy

Any chance you can post some sound files (wav or mp3?).


[/b]

I have one recent *.wav. It's a 2 minute cut (and about 15,000K) out of a 15 minute piece. This was my first EVER editing job and I'm still learning how to use the CD Ripper. I think that file is too large to put up here. If I can figure out how to convert it to mp3 it should get smaller, right?

--- R

[Violine]

Originally posted by wst3
Well, I haven't used the Core Sound microphones, but if you take a look around, decent to very good microphones are flooding the marketplace!

Another thought... while I am no fan of any lossy compression scheme, it seems to me that you might get a huge improvement with a better preamp, depending on what you are using for microphones now.

I'm not using any preamp... just plugging the mic into the minidisc and going. Until I bought the Philips CR burner, the sound was fine that way - 'cause no one else owned a minidisc and I had to distribute on cassette. The recordings lost so much quality being transfered even to metal tape that I never bothered with any other equipment.

Now that I can transfer to CD however, I'm looking to upgrade. The problems are that a) I still want everything to be portable to gigs (in other words - it all has to fit in my violin case or music bag) and b) I'm down in Kansas working and there aren't very many places here to try-before-you-buy.

The Core Sound mics are the size of ear bud earphones. I've seen 'em at work and heard the results. For about $300 I can improve my recordings about 10 fold.

I'm jealous... I have that personality type that won't let me do that. The afore-mentioned wedding is still tieing up a large quantity of disk space<G>!

Ha! Yeah, I just downloaded my first editing program (a demo version of Sound Forge - recommended by a friend at Discmakers). I don't understand half of what this program can do!

OUCH!!!!! You get lots of points!!! Which theatre? (I grew up in West Chester, and have spent my whole life between Reading and Philly. My Dad worked in Morton for a spell, and he bought me my first "real" guitar at Swathmore Music.)

Players' Club

I can't even imagine doing the kind of editing you described... the timing is frightening!

It was. We sat up there with scores and basically had to breathe with the singers. Most shows took 2 people to run sound. Sometimes we were cutting back and forth between 2 playback machines mid-song... so one could re-cue while the other finished the next verse. I really am glad those days are over. (Did I mention that this place was an amateur (read VOLUNTEER) theater company and NOBODY got paid????)

---R

[wst3]

Originally posted by Violine
I'm not using any preamp... just plugging the mic into the minidisc and going. Until I bought the Philips CR burner, the sound was fine that way - 'cause no one else owned a minidisc and I had to distribute on cassette. The recordings lost so much quality being transfered even to metal tape that I never bothered with any other equipment.

Actually, my point exactly... the preamps in the portable minidisk and DAT recorders are notoriously bad, mostly due to insufficient headroom. Almost anything is an improvement<G>! Since you work on location, and the rest of your rig does not need AC power, I would suggest the Midiman AudioBuddy. It can be modified to operate off batteries, and the performance in that mode is actually remarkably good. (Caveat - I do some design work for MIDIMan)

Originally posted by Violine
Now that I can transfer to CD however, I'm looking to upgrade. The problems are that a) I still want everything to be portable to gigs (in other words - it all has to fit in my violin case or music bag) and b) I'm down in Kansas working and there aren't very many places here to try-before-you-buy.

That last part does pose a challenge, but there are vendors on the web who will let you try after you buy, and take things back if you are not happy.

The portability issues really isn't an issue. The Audio Buddy is smaller than your recorder.

Originally posted by Violine
The Core Sound mics are the size of ear bud earphones. I've seen 'em at work and heard the results. For about $300 I can improve my recordings about 10 fold.

I've played around with the stealth microphones, not Core Sound's to the best of my knowledge but others, and I was prepared to be really impressed... but I wasn't!

Two alternatives you might consider are the Oktava and Marshall lines. Both have small diaphram condensor microphones that sound pretty good, and a pair of either will cost you less than $300.

They are physically larger than the Core Sound Stealth microphones, but they will sound better.

Originally posted by Violine
Ha! Yeah, I just downloaded my first editing program (a demo version of Sound Forge - recommended by a friend at Discmakers). I don't understand half of what this program can do!

It can do a lot! It was my first audio editor on the PC, and I still have my copy, but I don't use it much. They just released the beta for their next version, and it still has that Sonic Foundry UI, which can't be beat, but it is starting to get a little long in the tooth for most audio work.

Others to check out include Wavelab from Steinberg, Samplewrench from dissidents, and CoolEdit Pro from Syntrillium. Because you are working with large files, you might also want to look at some of the non-destructive editors, like Samplitude and SAW, they will save you hours of time! Unfortunately, both of these are really optimized for multitrack work.

Wavelab V3 has a non-destructive mode, but I haven't tried it yet. Sound Forge also has a pseudo-non-destructive mode, they call it a cut list, but it really clutters up the display, so I seldom use it.

Some other things to check out... plug-ins... they can really expand your arsenal of tools. For noise reduction I find Sonic Foundries plug-in to be the best for really complex projects. I haven't felt the need to try Steinbergs tools, but I hear they are pretty good. The other one that I like is Raygun from Arboretum... funny name, almost no controls, but for quick cleanup it is hard to beat!

As far as reverbs, equalizers, compressors, etc, I've pretty much settled on the entire suites from Waves and Power Technologies, along with an Equalizer from TC|works. They all do some things well, and they have their own approaches to user interfaces<G>... there are also a LOT of freeware and shareware plugins, and some of them are quite good.

The equalizer in Sound Forge is pretty good for "surgical" work, but I don't think it is all that musical. I don't care for their compressor at all.

The other tool in Sound Forge that you need to look at is their batch processor... if you find that you need to do a lot of processing you can set up the parameters and then let the computer do all the processing while you sleep, watch TV, go to your day job, whatever... a real help for complex projects.

Originally posted by Violine
It was. We sat up there with scores and basically had to breathe with the singers. Most shows took 2 people to run sound. Sometimes we were cutting back and forth between 2 playback machines mid-song... so one could re-cue while the other finished the next verse. I really am glad those days are over. (Did I mention that this place was an amateur (read VOLUNTEER) theater company and NOBODY got paid????)

I've done sound design for theatre since college, and it remains one of my favorite challenges. I pretty much stick to local amateur theatres because it is usually a lot of fun.

The advent of CDs and samplers has made the whole thing so much easier... and better! For one shot effects I simply load them into an ancient EPS and let the sound person hit the keys. For music I make the necessary edits and then create two CDs so that they can work back and forth.

It is worlds more repeatable than two tape decks, and it sounds worlds better than two card machines! And there is no variability with cueing. I just can't say enough for this approach!

Probably the best part is that for any given project I now have much more time to actually create the sound effects... which is, for me, the best part!

[Violine]

Originally posted by wst3
Actually, my point exactly... the preamps in the portable minidisk and DAT recorders are notoriously bad, mostly due to insufficient headroom. Almost anything is an improvement<G>! Since you work on location, and the rest of your rig does not need AC power, I would suggest the Midiman AudioBuddy. It can be modified to operate off batteries, and the performance in that mode is actually remarkably good. (Caveat - I do some design work for MIDIMan)

Gotcha. Now I understand. Core Sound offers a special cable that kind of does the same thing (I think).

Oh, and btw, I usually do operate off AC power when recording. I just don't trust batteries in the middle of a 2 hour concert - no matter how fresh. I know, the mini disc won't start slowing down like the old cassette recorders used to do, but... I make sure I have a freshly charged rechargeable battery in the machine, and I still plug it in. Then if the thing gets unplugged (which has happened), the recording won't get interrupted.

Call me paranoid, but I also change the mic battery at intermission if I can.

I've played around with the stealth microphones, not Core Sound's to the best of my knowledge but others, and I was prepared to be really impressed... but I wasn't!

Two alternatives you might consider are the Oktava and Marshall lines. Both have small diaphram condensor microphones that sound pretty good, and a pair of either will cost you less than $300.

I'll look into them. I'm not quite ready to buy yet anyway.

Others to check out include Wavelab from Steinberg, Samplewrench from dissidents, and CoolEdit Pro from Syntrillium.

[stuff deleted]

.... non-destructive editors, like Samplitude and SAW...
Wavelab V3 has a non-destructive mode, but I haven't tried it yet.

I don't know if I have the time, energy or need to use all the features these programs have. I really don't want to ALTER performance. For archival and study/learning, I want to be able to hear exactly what happened. And as for submitting competition or festival applications, well, doctoring is ILLEGAL (I'm sure it's done, but since live performance is my end product, I want my applications to demonstrate my ability to do just that).

And also since all this is VERY new to me, I still haven't even figured out how to convert this nice extracted WAV file to MP3...

[Violine]

[quote]Originally posted by richlevy

Any chance you can post some sound files (wav or mp3?).

Hi Rich! What a nice new incarnation of the Cellar we have here!

Ok, Tony has instructed me how to upload sound files. My first attempt is STILL transfering (at well over 45 minutes already). It's a cut from the middle (actually variations 12 and 13 from a set of 23) from the Handel-Halvorssen: Passacaglia for Violin and Viola. The recording was from a live performance Tues 23 Jan 2001.

There was nothing really spectacular about this excerpt except that it had easy edit points and I'm still learning how to use my new software. If I can figure out how to rename the file, I'll call it something more descriptive than Track_03_01.wav

More to follow -

Ruth