Minimum wage: $15 NOW!; or 15... eventually

[BigV]

Today the Mayor, Ed Murray, signed into law a bill passed unanimously by the city council yesterday that raises the minimum wage in the City of Seattle to $15 / hour.

This is a big deal, it is estimated that 100,000 people in Seattle make less than $15/hour. There was tremendous political exertion by all parties starting at the beginning of the year to make this happen. There are lots of details, like when, how fast, what's included, etc etc, which I'll cover tomorrow.

Meanwhile I gave a link to several good news stories on the subject, here's one that I found particularly helpful in conveying the tone of the months-long debate.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I hope it works out a well as they hope it will.

[Undertoad]

It won't. Econ 101. It's been proven thousands of times all over the world that you can't vote yourself prosperity. The supply curve still operates the same, around the world, no matter what a city council may believe.

Every time someone makes an argument for this, ask yourself, why not $20? Why not $25? Ask yourself, how did central planning work in the old USSR? How has it worked since it was ended in China?

I ask myself as an employee, am I generating enough revenue to justify my salary? Because there is nothing else this comes down to, and if employees are not generating that, there are three choices: either you're fired, your hours are cut back, or the business closes. There literally are no other choices.

So, what's employment in Seattle today? Lower than the national average. That's a good starting point for this kind of project. Historically, higher minimum wages result in a rise in unemployment. That's what is expected from the supply curve. Let's see what happens in five years. I expect it to be up about 2-3 points and I expect city tax revenues will be down. Good luck to the poor, who will be the first and the worst affected by this. If I turn out to be wrong I will happily admit it.

[glatt]

I thought that employee productivity is up in the US and company profits were also up. But wages are not also rising because unemployment is so high, companies don't have to increase wages to retain their employees. The teeming masses of unemployed waiting to get their foot in the door is enough to keep workers from leaving a low paying job.

So how do you convince companies who are sitting on piles of cash to share that cash with the workers? Either through new jobs or higher wages? Companies will always hold on to profits and not share them if they can get away with it.

Reminds me of how the Republicans have long chanted that small businesses are the job creators, but that's a fallacy. It's consumers who are the job creators. If demand goes up, businesses have to hire to meet that demand. They don't hire more and pay more just because they are good guys. If they have a huge profit, they are going to keep that profit if they can. They only create new jobs if they can't meet current demand. They have no choice but to hire. And they will never give a raise unless they are afraid they will lose their employees. And they aren't afraid right now because there are so many willing to jump in and fill the spot of the current employees.

A minimum wage takes some of the power from the companies and gives it to the workers.

Some small businesses may be on such shaky ground that they have to do layoffs, but I bet most will be fine. And the large ones will have no problem.

There will be a small increase in inflation because of this. Probably seen in the apartment rental market the most. (Because that's local and a finite resource.)

[footfootfoot]

The real problem isn't that minimum wage needs to be raised, that won't do anything to address disproportionate wealth.

CEOs make from 10 to 422 times the median worker's pay
http://www.payscale.com/data-package...come/full-list

It's essentially a Ponzi scheme, the current idea that executives can make as much money as they can while paying employees as little as they can. Just like growing corn over and over on the same plot of ground without replenishing the soil will lead to a dust bowl.

I still maintain this is a backlash from Dr. Spock's scheduled feeding myth rather than nursing on demand.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4748066.html

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

...
There literally are no other choices.
...

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

The real problem isn't that minimum wage needs to be raised, that won't do anything to address disproportionate wealth.

CEOs make from 10 to 422 times the median worker's pay
http://www.payscale.com/data-package...come/full-list

It's essentially a Ponzi scheme, the current idea that executives can make as much money as they can while paying employees as little as they can. Just like growing corn over and over on the same plot of ground without replenishing the soil will lead to a dust bowl.

I still maintain this is a backlash from Dr. Spock's scheduled feeding myth rather than nursing on demand.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4748066.html

Winner Winner chicken dinner

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Winner Winner chicken dinner

If you were aiming for CEO salaries with minimum wage increases, you have just shot your friend in the face. This affects small business and government just as much as big business.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If you were aiming for CEO salaries with minimum wage increases, you have just shot your friend in the face. This affects small business and government just as much as big business.

But pulling a Dick Cheney is another choice.

If there were standards, like* "income over $500k" or "businesses with more than 30 employees" it wouldn't screw the little guy.

* to be determined by experts later

[footfootfoot]

great NYT piece
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...e-the-pay-gap/

[Gravdigr]

Let us know how the prices of hamburgers react to that $15/hr minimum wage...get those sperm-covered $1 McChickens while you can...

[xoxoxoBruce]

If you want real money you need a bullshit job.

[henry quirk]

Let's say I own and run 'Quirk's Books' (my business, my property).

If I wanna pay a buck an hour, can't see how that's any one's concern (exceptin' for me and the person who takes the buck per hour job).

If I wanna pay 50 bucks an hour can't see how that's any one's concern (exceptin' for me and the person who takes the 50 bucks per hour job).

As the owner: seems to me I ought to be the one determining the value of any job I need done.

If I value poorly, then I'll have no employees (or, what I have will be for shit).

If I over-value, then my business suffers by way of my misuse of cash.

If I'm wise, then I pay what my lil economy can bear.

If I'm unwise then -- one way or another -- I go out of business.

Not seein' the need for mandated wages.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Let's say I own and run 'Quirk's Books' (my business, my property).

If I wanna pay a buck an hour, can't see how that's any one's concern (exceptin' for me and the person who takes the buck per hour job).

If I wanna pay 50 bucks an hour can't see how that's any one's concern (exceptin' for me and the person who takes the 50 bucks per hour job).

As the owner: seems to me I ought to be the one determining the value of any job I need done.

If I value poorly, then I'll have no employees (or, what I have will be for shit).

If I over-value, then my business suffers by way of my misuse of cash.

If I'm wise, then I pay what my lil economy can bear.

If I'm unwise then -- one way or another -- I go out of business.

Not seein' the need for mandated wages.

Leads to a return to feudalism. And that's OK. Feudalism lead to the French Revolution.

[henry quirk]

"It also, however took down thousands upon thousands of innocent individuals who never made any of the unwise decisions that killed their employer."

If a body can't or won't self-employ and therefore works for others, then a body should cling to the idea of 'employee beware' (or, 'cover your own ass', or, 'keep one eye open all the time').

To assume your employer is honest or wise or simply a good business person is foolish.

Seems to me: an employee should always expect to be screwed over by the boss.

#

"we share our wisdom"

Wisdom unfortunately laced with insanity much of the time, so much so it's hard to distinguish one from the other.

##

"you can't legislate for morality or against greed, if you could no one would try to find loopholes."

I think lookin' for loopholes is distinctly human and unavoidable as evidenced by every murder and rape and act of theft (all of which have been legislated against, largely because each is 'wrong' [immoral]).

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

If I wanna pay 50 bucks an hour can't see how that's any one's concern (exceptin' for me and the person who takes the 50 bucks per hour job).

...and the person who found a book they want to buy, but, it costs a thousand dollars, so you can afford to pay that worthless book shelver $50/hr.