What is a friend?

[Lola Bunny]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Thanks, Lola. You're a pal; always looking out for me. I appreciate that.

Anytime. That's what friends are for.

[Trilby]

I know that Lonely Road to Nowhere after a (very meaningful for me, anyway, not HIM, obviously) relationship and it nearly killed me.

here's what I learned:

don't drink. At all. Makes it worse.

don't work nights. Makes it worse.

Don't isolate yourself from others of either sex. Friendships will get you out of the boat and in with the mermaids. There are PLENTY of women out there looking for YOU. Cool off, slow down, get your head straight and write down exactly what you want in a relationship. (but don't forget kindness and trustworthiness and lack of sex addiction b/c I forgot to add those and I got a mean, lying sex addict)

[orthodoc]

Agree. Kindness is big. So is courtesy. And respect - has to come from both sides. And friendship, even if you're feeling frisky and friendship isn't high on the priority list ... it's where the fun and nice stuff come in. Lack of sex addiction and weirdness - good, good point, Tril. Lack of weirdness, but presence of physical attraction. Willingness to wait to get to know someone before letting them into your life. Writing it out ahead of time helps the big head think straight (maybe) when the little one has its own agenda.

Oh, and another thing I've learned: don't think that because you know somebody slightly and have a general impression of them being a good person (from a public reputation) that the person really is like that. Watch closely what the person actually says and does. Otherwise you may miss the fact that this person is far from what they present for public consumption.

[infinite monkey]

I'm reminded of an old arabian proverb i committed to memory when i was a much younger soul:

A friend is one to whom one may pour out all the contents of one's heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keep what is worth keeping and with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away.

[Lamplighter]

That's new to me... very nice.

[Chocolatl]

I love that, infi.

[orthodoc]

That's lovely, infi. The proverb incorporates friendship, kindness, respect, and courtesy. Compassion fits in there too.

That's one half of the circle, and the nice, fun, sexy stuff completes the other half.

There - New Years 2013 recipe for a good relationship.

[BigV]

lots of thoughts here, I want to get them all out, will suppress my inner editor for the moment, please forgive me.

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

So yeah, a friend of mine, whom you all know, has thrown in the towel in his marriage. He's now running down the clock until things are settled. In the interim he's set up an eHarmony account. I'm not sure what advice to give him and was wondering if you all think this is premature. He seems to think it gives him hope that there is a future with an SO who would be fun and nice and like to have sex more than once a year and who doesn't get angry all the fucking time about nothing. And who doesn't nag or criticize.

Maybe he is living in a fantasy world.

1--eHarmony sucks. OKCupid is the best, more on this later.
2--Not premature, or maybe it is, I don't know about you. You'll know. You'll know from your experience doing what you're gonna do, not from sitting and thinking about it.
3--THERE IS HOPE FOR FINDING A SO THAT IS FUN AND NICE AND LIKES SEX; WHO DOESN'T NAG OR GET ANGRY ALL THE TIME. Really, I need a bigger font for this. Please, please please please, if you don't get anything else from my posts or anyone else's posts, please do get this point. Your previous experience is a LIMITED SAMPLE of what is out there. Not a representative sample. What you describe is not just out there somewhere, it's normal. It's abundant. Most people are like that, most people want that, men and women alike. When I was where you are now, a little while ago, I, too, thought that what you are looking for, what I was looking for was ... imaginary, mythical. I was wrong.

My "normal" had been acclimated to some range waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay the fuck over there on some scale and wasn't anything close to reality *outside my own life*. I needed to recalibrate. You need to recalibrate, you *will* recalibrate. Stuff I thought was oholyshit! was just par for the course. Stuff I thought was a guaranteed landmine was unnoticed. Your experience to date is not a reliable indicator of what's out there, it's just too limited.

Originally Posted by Chocolatl

eHarmony told me I had no matches.

Having never been in your *friend's* shoes, I have no advice other than to take it easy. Many people I know have gotten in to crazy rebound relationships because they got so caught up in that butterfly feeling that hadn't been in their lives in so long.

there will be butterflies. there will be new mistakes. you will have to live them to know what they're like, they're ok, they're survivable. you have to get to know what else is out there in the world.

Originally Posted by Lola Bunny

A woman who doesn't nag or criticize? Now that's a fantasy.

Not true. Maybe I got the last one. But I sincerely doubt it.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I criticize myself all the time. However, perhaps i should have nagged for some respect, in my relationships. Not being a nag scores no long-term points...but i attracted guys who liked to take advantage of that about me.

there is very limited usefulness to self criticism. it's not zero, but it's close to it. that shit is supremely potent and a very little bit goes a very long way. too much and the whole everything is poisoned.

sorry you had shitty experiences, s123. speaking as a guy, for myself, "not being a nag" scores GIANT LONG-TERM POINTS, every damn day.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

eHarmony is not supposed to let you on if you are still married.

OKCupid is where all the cool people are

Fuck yes. More later.

Originally Posted by orthodoc

I can see the value of taking time to become content on one's own, refocusing on what's important to you as an individual. Values and goals that don't match are more of a problem between partners than interests that don't align.

That said, the loneliness in a long-term dying relationship is hard to bear, and it's very hard to resist falling into a rebound relationship.

there is value in taking the time to become content with one's self, on one's own. I gave myself one year, by the clock, before I actively dated. It was a good idea, it worked pretty well, season to taste.

there will be feelings, there will be rebound relationships, they'll have a little life of their own. Like a baby learning to walk. Your friend, he walks around all the time these days, doesn't even give it a moment's thought, right? But back when he was a baby, he kinda thought that "poop! I hate this crawling scootching thing, I want more!!" only knew crawling, but wanted more. so he tried, failed, tried again, failed again, tried, fell, hurt himself, repeat repeat repeat repeat then his normal became different. As a former baby, he probably still falls down, but it's once in awhile now, not all the time.

the inevitable rebound relationships will be like this. failure. pain. excitement. teetering. more pain. more trying. more learning. then success. I guarantee it.

Originally Posted by Trilby

I know that Lonely Road to Nowhere after a (very meaningful for me, anyway, not HIM, obviously) relationship and it nearly killed me.

here's what I learned:

don't drink. At all. Makes it worse.

don't work nights. Makes it worse.

Don't isolate yourself from others of either sex. Friendships will get you out of the boat and in with the mermaids. There are PLENTY of women out there looking for YOU. Cool off, slow down, get your head straight and write down exactly what you want in a relationship. (but don't forget kindness and trustworthiness and lack of sex addiction b/c I forgot to add those and I got a mean, lying sex addict)

my thoughts on this post.

I *restarted* drinking after divorce. It was not harmful. I'd quit drinking, was sober about seventeen years, the last seventeen of the marriage. quitting drinking did not preserve my marriage. good try, but didn't work. so, having no marriage to preserve, I allowed myself to enjoy beer and bourbon again. Both actions were good ideas. YMMV

I like her advice and image about friends and the boat. I agree with her point that there are plenty of women out there who are looking for you. abso-fucking-lutely. the next part is very good too, cooling off and WRITING DOWN WHAT THE HELL YOU WANT. Really. If kindness and trustworthiness are important, put them on your list. I can't speak against sex addiction though.

Originally Posted by orthodoc

Agree. Kindness is big. So is courtesy. And respect - has to come from both sides. And friendship, even if you're feeling frisky and friendship isn't high on the priority list ... it's where the fun and nice stuff come in. Lack of sex addiction and weirdness - good, good point, Tril. Lack of weirdness, but presence of physical attraction. Willingness to wait to get to know someone before letting them into your life. Writing it out ahead of time helps the big head think straight (maybe) when the little one has its own agenda.

Oh, and another thing I've learned: don't think that because you know somebody slightly and have a general impression of them being a good person (from a public reputation) that the person really is like that. Watch closely what the person actually says and does. Otherwise you may miss the fact that this person is far from what they present for public consumption.

ortho also makes good points, but by now it all sounds like advice on how to be a good partner, do x, y, z, avoid a, b, c, etc. that's gonna vary from pairing to pairing. that's what the rebound relationships are FOR. trying each other out. The how to be a good guy, one that a woman wants to be with... ... I can tell you a lot of things. I don't think that's on the list. I think you already know how to be a good guy. I think at this point I can give more valuable assistance by reminding you of that, and by encouraging you to keep trying, especially through the coming ordeal.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I'm reminded of an old arabian proverb i committed to memory when i was a much younger soul:

A friend is one to whom one may pour out all the contents of one's heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keep what is worth keeping and with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away.

I've heard that before and I truly love it. There are very many in that old thread that I love. Thanks for the reminder.

[Lola Bunny]

BigV: I was trying to be funny, hehe. I'm a woman too, and my goodness, I don't think we're all bad.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Lola Bunny

BigV: I was trying to be funny, hehe. I'm a woman too, and my goodness, I don't think we're all bad.

look I agree with you. My point is that it is an achievable fantasy

;-)

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by BigV

Not true. Maybe I got the last one. But I sincerely doubt it.

No, it appears I've found one too.

there is value in taking the time to become content with one's self, on one's own. I gave myself one year, by the clock, before I actively dated. It was a good idea, it worked pretty well, season to taste.

Absolutely, being driven by...
1- The desire to make up for wasted time,
2- The desire to show the world (her) that you can be half a good relationship,
3- The desire to lose the loneliness that comes with a bad marriage, but "real men" don't acknowledge ,
4- Wanting sex, even though they know they were getting more dating around than in a steady relationship,
5- Other singular reasons,
...the danger of jumping from the frying pan into the fire, or more likely another frying pan, is huge.

You've got a handle on what she did that made you unhappy, but do you really know what you do want?
Ok, you want to be happy, but do you know what it will take, not just what you don't want, but what you do want.?

I think the only way to decide what you want the future "her" to add to your life and what you are willing to give up in trade, is to live single for a bit and see what you like and dislike about it.
You can date, even have them stay over a night or two. That way you learn how much you resent, if at all, the inevitable intrusion, the interruption of a comfortable routine. Finding a "her" that doesn't mind if you fart, is not the end all, be all.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by BigV

Not true. Maybe I got the last one. But I sincerely doubt it.

Bravo to Bruce and BigV! And for that matter me.

[infinite monkey]

I don't think i will ever really get over the moment i was shoved off the pedestal i never asked to be on. But i was young, and believed if he put me up there then i must be special, 'this' must be special.

Now i'm on solid ground, and i don't have far to fall if that moment came again. There are no guarantees...so i have to build my own self-worth.

Someone who loves you wants you to have that feeling of self-worth, too. It takes patience and kindness, especially in extreme cases. When someone loves you for exactly who you are you might take the bad things about you (in your eyes, due to the past) out of a box and present them, one by one, saying 'see this?' And hearing in return 'so? That's part of you.' 'Oh, well what about this?' 'Still you, and i still love you.'

What? Where are the berating words? Where is the meanness?

But those words don't come, and i slowly believe in in myself, in 'this.'

[infinite monkey]

@ BigV: weird, i read that quote in college (i remember putting it into a letter to a friend) and it was said to be an arabian proverb. It's hard to research from my phone, but a quick look at google ascribes it to both george eliot, and to the arabs (arabians?) Either way it is a lovely thought...but i am curious as to its original source.