How do you deal

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

Thank you. It's true, what you all say. Tonight I'll avoid long talks with adult children and just practice breathing.

Remember there should be an exhale for every inhale. It's a common beginner's mistake.

[orthodoc]

I'll keep it in mind. But practice makes perfect, right?

[bluecuracao]

I'm so frustrated for you right now, ortho. This is absolutely the time for you to be completely selfish, to heal yourself. And your kids need to get a hold of themselves, to be there for you and provide every kind of support that they can. They really need to stop thinking about themselves right now, and concentrate on you.

And you have every right to tell them so! You being strong for you, and them being strong for you, is what will help you get through this cancer crap!

[Aliantha]

I'm with the others here who have said your children sound like they're being very selfish. FFS, they're all grown ups now. Surely they know what the real world is like by now. Not everything happens because of some set of rules, and everyone goes through stuff which influences who they are.

If they really feel they're so fucked up, tell them to go see a counsellor and deal with that shit.

You have enough of your own shit to deal with. You gave them the best of yourself for their first 20 years or so. It's up to them to make the most of what they've got. I say, tell them to get over their 'first world problems' and wake up and smell the roses. Their lives don't seem too fucking bad to me.

eta: in your position, I would not even acknowledge their complaining. Honestly. I would actually be pretty pissed off (and believe me, my kids have made a number of comments in the past, so I speak from experience). Maybe you need to be a bit more of a hard arse with them. When your 'children' are adults (mine are almost there), they need to make the cognitive leap from blaming their parents (who traditionally hold the power) to acknowledging their own responsibility (because now they are the ones with the power) for their issues. Some people never do, so spend their whole life blaming their failures on their parents or their terrible up bringing. Others do. It's called growing up.

[orthodoc]

Last summer and fall Claudette told me it was my time to be selfish. She told me to do whatever I needed to do to get through - and if that meant accepting help from my ex, so be it. She also told me to stop focusing on my guilt toward others and let them deal.

She was right, and so are you. I've managed to detach from issues that my second son tries to lay at my feet ... that's been a process over many years. I can now love him, be supportive, but hand his issues and accusations back to him to deal with. There haven't been the same crises and confrontations with my other two sons or my daughter and that handing over of responsibility hasn't happened in the same way. My first son has rarely talked about his memories or trauma, so on the few occasions that it's happened, it was hard for me. My third son is very articulate, and he has the ability to cut my heart out with a few words and hand it to me. That's what happened (again) the other night.

But my kids are all adults now, (turning) 21 - 27. You're right, my job is done. Time for them to make what they want to of their lives. I gave them my best, and though I made mistakes, they always knew I loved them. I didn't have that in my upbringing. I know it's why I overcompensated with my own children.

So ... thank you for calling bullshit. I can't do this anymore, I did the best I could and they know it. Even the parish they think was so awful ... sure, the people weren't perfect. They were human, that's all. Not villains, just humans with typical faults. And while the discipline of an Old Rite Russian Orthodox parish might seem strict to some (we stood in services for 1 1/2 hours on Saturday nights and an equal time on Sunday mornings, and the kids learned some Old Slavonic), many kids endure far more grueling schedules at marching band practice, gymnastics, or other athletic or academic pursuits. My sons have admitted the advantage of knowing some Ukrainian, some Russian, and some Slavonic, as well as the French they learned in Canada. Chinese parents in Canada demanded far more of their kids. By those standards I wasn't a tiger mom at all, and our household wasn't any sort of chamber of horrors.

[Griff]

Claudette was right,.. again.

We are not fully formed people ever, let alone when were still young enough to become parents. Expecting a lot of your children is so much better than what we see so much of in the States, parents who expect nothing of their children.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Mothers are always vulnerable to this guilt trip shit, maybe that's why they can be so good doling it out, too.

Just keep in mind, relatives are assigned like parking spaces, but friends are chosen. Choose yours carefully, you don't need the grief.

[classicman]

Can you still smack your adult children?

If not tell them Classic said to STFU. If they want to hear about a bad deal - give em my email address. Fukkin brats.

[DanaC]

I think that's a tad harsh. Though, I agree with the basic thrust.

The thing is, it is all too easy, for anyone, to become set in ways and patterns of thinking and viewing the world. We all do it. They have become caught in a particular view of their past and haven't had the opportunity (or drive) yet to reassess and reconfigure the view.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Just keep in mind, relatives are assigned like parking spaces, but friends are chosen. Choose yours carefully, you don't need the grief.

Good one Bruce. I know lot of people who can use this bit. Think I will get it stamped on my t-shirt.

Ortho: I haven't been here for long enough to know you like other of the cellar dwellers. But I can say regrets are not going to do you any good.
As they say:
Don't start your day with broken pieces of yesterday. Every morning we wake up is the first day of the rest of our life.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by wanderer

Don't start your day with broken pieces of yesterday.

That's beautiful, I've never heard that before.

[orthodoc]

I like that very much, too. Thank you, wanderer.

As usual, Dana, your thoughtful comments hit the nail on the head. Although I really cannot shoulder any more guilt and grief over the past, my kids are young enough adults that they haven't the life experience yet to know that life smacks all of us around and each of us is fallible. They'll get there. I think seeing parents clearly is perhaps one of the last things that comes with maturity. That doesn't make these conversations easier to deal with but I understand.

[Aliantha]

Yeah, but growing up enough to realose your parents aren't perfect is one thing. Being mature enough not to blame them for it is quite different.

[BigV]

I love this thread.

**I hasten to add that I do NOT love the pain and the bullshit orthodoc (and others) suffer.**

But I do love hearing from my wise friends.

ortho, you do have many friends here, and they are, as a group, as smart and strong and insightful and articulate and compassionate as any group of people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, much less belonging to. I learn from them, and from you. I don't always agree with what I hear, for example, your remark that "your kids are adults; your job is done". I think Griff's take is much closer to the mark, that we're never fully formed people, that we, all of us, parents and children alike, can continue to grow and learn.

I have adult children too, indeed, I, myself, am an adult child of my mom (and dad, duh, but dad's dead now, ... anyhow). And I am still learning my way through life; they are still learning their way through life. Our paths are not parallel, but they are congruent. Mistakes, triumphs, hard work, continuous effort. Chances to see beauty and to have fun, they're all there for all of us. Like you, I have expectations of my kids that are in many cases higher than where they're at. I have ideals for them to live UP to, like taking personal responsibility. But only in fair proportion, only what's appropriate. Again, that's as true valid for me as it for them.

And sometimes, the expectations are exceeded. The successes my kids make for themselves are so gratifying to witness. Their rewards for their hard work, I'm so happy to see that. I don't know how they managed, and it's true, they'll never know how much blood, sweat, and tears I put into their lives. That's... that's how it is.

It's true that the response described by classic frequently comes to mind when I'm faced with what I feel is an unreasonable response on the part of my kids (or extended family for that matter). They're ALL too big to spank anymore, but I still permit myself a nostalgic nod toward that dusty, long-unused tool. Now, I have to reason with them. (insert giant eyeroll here). While it lacks the visceral satisfactions of other means of persuasion, it does prove effective, and that is what I'm striving for.

I'm still learning, and so are they. But the learning is UP TO THEM, it's not on me to "make them" learn. Sure, you're still their parent, sure, your job isn't done, but it has changed. Now the tools they've been given must be employed, by them, to continue to grow. They'll get there. For now, they're still striving upward toward your expectations. Let them strive, it makes them strong.

[footfootfoot]

At a friends party a couple of kids were going out to play in the woods.

The mom: "Be careful."
The dad: "Have fun."

That exchange sums up parenting and contains everything.