My Funny Valentine (pssst! s/he's a psycho! - part 2)

As promised, here's the second part of my semi-scholarly dissertation on Narcissists and Psychopaths and how they so easily con even pretty smart folks - maybe even YOU!

Now class, you may recall my statement that N's and P's really have no true self, no ability to feel empathy, and view the rest of us as incomprehensible because we have all these things we call emotions and feel something that we call "love."

N's and P's are absolutely incapable of putting themselves in another place. Its kind of like if you or I were to sit in our living room and try to imagine how our TV set felt about life. The idea would never cross our minds in the first place because a TV is an object - useful when it works, an annoyance when it doesn't, and easily discarded in favor of a newer model with better features and a bigger screen. We don't wonder if the TV feels pain when it goes on the fritz, we don't wonder if it misses us when we call someone to have it hauled away.

N's and P's realize early on that if they make their true attitudes about other people known, this will not win them much favor in human society. They think the rest of us are stupid and they play the game in order to be accepted and win the bennies that come along with human status - having a sex partner, getting admiration, getting money - whatever it is that the N or P is looking for at the moment.

A human being who lacks the capacity to feel empathy lacks a soul. Their emotional repetoire is severely limited. A cat has a wider range of emotion available to it than a narcissist does. A cat that is treated with kindness will probably remain with its owner, come purr on their lap, greet them affectionately when they return home, and sulk and become forlorn in the absense of the person who normally cares for it. A dog will most certainly do these things.

Without empathy, there can be no love. Without empathy there can be no sudden feeling of delight in seeing the swoop of a nighthawk or the beauty of the stars on a clear desert night. Without empathy, one cannot share in the sorrows of one's friends or be glad for their happiness. Without empathy, you are a reptile, a stem brain and nothing more.

So N's and P's feel lust, desire for material possesions and comforts, the drive for freedom from hunger and thirst and to be safe from the extremes of the elements. That's it. Pretty limited, eh?

Yet they are forced to fit in with a human society where people commonly feel passion not just in its sexual sense but also a passion for being alive - a passion for words or for music or for painting or for doing crossword puzzles or arguing politics or... Plus individuals have all kinds of individual quirks that set them apart - one may love the color blue and wear nothing but shades of that color, someone else hates tomatoes, a third is fascinated by arrowheads and has a huge collection of them. Most of us have our own unique intrinsic being - a baseline that we can turn back toward, a concept of what defines us and what values we hold in highest regard.

N's and P's have none of these things.

A narcissist can only mirror those around him. There's no self in there, remember? N's have been practicing the fine art of mimicry from age 2 on. By time they are teenagers, they are master's of the con. They have to be in order to survive in human society.

So here you are - Sally or Sam Single and let's say you have been invited to a coffee shop by some friends to go hear the local musician's open mike. You chat with your friends and glance over the motley coffee shop crowd, maybe not even seriously looking, but checking out the scene in a casual way. The narcissist in this case has arrived before you did. Most likely he's signed up to perform or maybe she's there as a groupie, dressed to kill accompanied by a mesmerized lover she's already become tired of. Unlike you, the narcissist is watching ever person there intently, like a predator watching a group of wildebeest on the plains of the Serengetti.

A single glance tells the narcissist much - that one is too confident - hard to take down; that one is too mousey - nothing to offer; that one is a possibility - nicely dressed, cell phone, perhaps a bit uncertain, new on the scene. The narcissist strikes up conversations easily - s/he has no inner censor holding them back. The narcissist will easily say whatever he thinks his possible prey might want to hear. Are you carrying a copy of "The Fountainhead"? The narcissist will pause as s/he HAPPENS to pass your table and comment that he hopes the local Libertarian candidate will win that seat on the City Council. If you had been holding a copy of "Das Kapital", the narcissist would have remarked with equal sincerity that he hoped a socialist would win the up-coming election.

Narcissists and psychopaths are masters at the art of flirtation. They often have a compelling gaze and will hold your eyes should you chance to glance their way. They seldom are crude or over bearing but will let you know in a thousand small ways that they find you attractive. Their hand will accidently brush yours as they reach over to pick up your copy of "The Fountainhead" (having politely asked your permission to see the book, first). If the narcissist senses you are responding in a positive fashion, he'll up his attentions slightly. Glance back at you and smile as he returns to his table, look over at you to see if you are watching when it comes his turn to play and let his eyes rest on you for a long moment before returning his gaze back to his own hands on his guitar.

You begin to feel that perhaps this person just might be simpatico - s/he seems interested but not forcing the issue, and you return that interest. The trap has been set....

[WabUfvot5]

So they are truly parasitic then? They do nothing if it doesn't benefit them in some way? In other words is there a motivation behind everything they do?

Narcissists and Psychopaths are definately emotional parasites, and often physical ones, too, living at the expense of others.

They NEVER do ANYTHING out of the kindness of their hearts, since they have no hearts. They may do "good works" as long as they know someone is watching in order to win praise or brownie points for their "kindness," but the phrase "giving to get something" must have been coined with the Narcissist in mind. Some can put on quite convincing dispays of altruism, but that's all it is - display.

A sociopath's interactions with others are exploitive and manipulative. They trust no one because they think that everyone else is like them. They'll milk a friendship or a relationship for every last thing they can get and then move on without a second thought to a fresh victim. There is always some motive behind their actions, although that motive may not be readily apparent to a normal person. Narcissists and psychopaths enjoy inflicting emotional pain, also. It makes them feel superior to their victims and and they enjoy having control over others.

[Cyclefrance]

Interesting and incisive appraisal.

I certainly have come across an N, fortunately at a time in my life when her (for female she was) actions were something I could observe for what they were than to be influenced by them. She was/still is very attractive and definitely very calculating, encouraging many would be suitors to gather around and playing off each's 'offering' against the other. The first to offer a 'treat' (be it a night out, a party, a meal, whatever) would be enticed by the prospect of winning her attractions and company, but there would never be that firm commitment at the outset, as other prospects had to be heard and their offers considered before the final decision could be made and she would choose what was the best offer that day.

A very confident person at this part of the 'game' and equally adept at projecting the image of the helpless female when the web was being spun. She could appear nice and uncomplicated at times, but there was always an underlying obligation to enjoying this side of her nature as when a favour was required the control would emerge and attempt to win every time. The man who failed to please and administer to her charms and needs would soon fall out of favour and be discarded. An interesting person to study from a distance - amazing to watch in action as a disinterested observer and non-particpating party...

[WabUfvot5]

Very interesting Cycle! Did you have any clue the word sociopath applied before reading this?

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Very interesting Cycle! Did you have any clue the word sociopath applied before reading this?

I'm not sure that sociopath applies in this case - surely a sociopath would bully and threaten - this is more subtle and the other person has the choice to accept or reject. I would expect a sociopath to be controlling with a threat of violence or some other harmful consequence. It's more a case of feeding the ego by the amount of attention and attraction that can be created and generated, and as much the ability to maintain the interest from those that are not chosen but can be kept dangling on a string... it all feeds the need to be the centre of attraction and to sustain that status. Maybe this isn't the correct definition of a narcissist, but it seemed to fit the description Marichiko was giving....

I have been guilty of using the words "sociopath," "narcissist," and "psychopath" interchangably at times, so I should clarify these terms. "Sociopath" is not a term in vogue among psychiatrists - they use the diagnosis of "anti-social personality disorder" or "psychopath" to describe those at the extreme end of the spectrum. Narcissism is considered a milder form of psychopathy, as it were.

However, it can be very difficult for the person with no experience or training to tell the difference between an N and a P. Sometimes a person will think that they have a "mere" N on their hands, only to have them turn into a raging P!

Also, psychopaths are quite cunning in the beginning and often will act in ways to inspire a susceptible person's pity for them. The poor thing! She is so confused and can never make up her mind! She may confide this sadly to each of her admirers in private. No doubt, tears willl well up in her eyes as she describes how difficult this has made her existance. She seems so forlorn! She really IS trying and can't understand why so many distressing things have occurred in her life! Some men at once want to put on their suit of shining armor, fighting this woman's dragons for her; not realizing that in fact, SHE is the dragon. And of course, women who meet the "lost little boy" psychopath may feel their maternal instincts aroused and rush to his rescue. So violence in the physical sense may not always be a factor, at least at the start.

I'll go back to Sally Single at the coffee shop to illustrate how an N/P manages to slip into a person's life. Now stuff like flirting mildly or striking up a conversation is generally the kind of thing any single man or woman would do when they meet an interesting person of the opposite sex.

Sally may go up the N/P after his performance at the open mike and politely compliment him on his playing. The N/P will suggest that they go to a quieter spot for a drink or more coffee. He suggest a public place known to them both and suggests that she follow him there in her car. Sally feels this is safe enough and agrees.

When they arrive at the new bistro, the N/P asks Sally what she wants. He then tells the waitress to make it two white wines or two chai latte's or whatever. The N/P then smiling asks what a nice looking woman like her is doing unattached. Surely, she has a BF? So Sally tells a little about her most recent break-up and asks the N/P the same question.

Tears well up in the N/P's eyes and he quickly brushes them aside with a show of being a new age sensitive guy and a manly man at the same time. "Well, you see," the N/P will start. Then he launches into a story of great tragedy where he was terribly wronged, but he still cares for his ex - he just couldn't take it anymore, so at last, with deep regret, he was forced to leave. All the while he is telling this fairy tale, the N/P is covertly guaging Sally's response. He elaborates on the things that seem to call forth a sympathetic response from her, quickly glosses over the details that don't.

At some point, Sally realizes they have been talking intently for 3 whole hours, and regretfully tells the N/P she must go since she has plans for the next day. The N'P asks for her number and she gives it to him.

He calls her a day or two later and Sally becomes to object of a courtship such as she has never in her life experienced before. The N/P mirrors her perfectly. He is so forlorn in a way, so romantic in another. All he needs is the love of a good woman and a little gentle guidance.He shares all Sally's same values. He likes her favorite foods better than she does. They share the same taste in music, the same outlook on life. Or so the N/P makes Sally think. The N/P gives every appearance of being madly in love with Sally. She has found her soul mate at last! This by the end of week two. By the end of week 4, the N/P is talking marriage and how adorable their children will look! Whoa! Slow down, Sally! But she can't help but feel flattered at the N/P's determination to sweep her off her feet, the way he spends all his free time with her; the way he knows just the right things to say. Poor Sally is a goner.

[May]

Until i didnt read your text,i thought i was the only one being a magnet for psychopaths and narcissists...from your point of you i found out that we live in a jungle of narcissists and it is my duty to recognise them and take care...thank you

Originally Posted by marichiko

As promised, here's the second part of my semi-scholarly dissertation on Narcissists and Psychopaths and how they so easily con even pretty smart folks - maybe even YOU!

Now class, you may recall my statement that N's and P's really have no true self, no ability to feel empathy, and view the rest of us as incomprehensible because we have all these things we call emotions and feel something that we call "love."

N's and P's are absolutely incapable of putting themselves in another place. Its kind of like if you or I were to sit in our living room and try to imagine how our TV set felt about life. The idea would never cross our minds in the first place because a TV is an object - useful when it works, an annoyance when it doesn't, and easily discarded in favor of a newer model with better features and a bigger screen. We don't wonder if the TV feels pain when it goes on the fritz, we don't wonder if it misses us when we call someone to have it hauled away.

N's and P's realize early on that if they make their true attitudes about other people known, this will not win them much favor in human society. They think the rest of us are stupid and they play the game in order to be accepted and win the bennies that come along with human status - having a sex partner, getting admiration, getting money - whatever it is that the N or P is looking for at the moment.

A human being who lacks the capacity to feel empathy lacks a soul. Their emotional repetoire is severely limited. A cat has a wider range of emotion available to it than a narcissist does. A cat that is treated with kindness will probably remain with its owner, come purr on their lap, greet them affectionately when they return home, and sulk and become forlorn in the absense of the person who normally cares for it. A dog will most certainly do these things.

Without empathy, there can be no love. Without empathy there can be no sudden feeling of delight in seeing the swoop of a nighthawk or the beauty of the stars on a clear desert night. Without empathy, one cannot share in the sorrows of one's friends or be glad for their happiness. Without empathy, you are a reptile, a stem brain and nothing more.

So N's and P's feel lust, desire for material possesions and comforts, the drive for freedom from hunger and thirst and to be safe from the extremes of the elements. That's it. Pretty limited, eh?

Yet they are forced to fit in with a human society where people commonly feel passion not just in its sexual sense but also a passion for being alive - a passion for words or for music or for painting or for doing crossword puzzles or arguing politics or... Plus individuals have all kinds of individual quirks that set them apart - one may love the color blue and wear nothing but shades of that color, someone else hates tomatoes, a third is fascinated by arrowheads and has a huge collection of them. Most of us have our own unique intrinsic being - a baseline that we can turn back toward, a concept of what defines us and what values we hold in highest regard.

N's and P's have none of these things.

A narcissist can only mirror those around him. There's no self in there, remember? N's have been practicing the fine art of mimicry from age 2 on. By time they are teenagers, they are master's of the con. They have to be in order to survive in human society.

So here you are - Sally or Sam Single and let's say you have been invited to a coffee shop by some friends to go hear the local musician's open mike. You chat with your friends and glance over the motley coffee shop crowd, maybe not even seriously looking, but checking out the scene in a casual way. The narcissist in this case has arrived before you did. Most likely he's signed up to perform or maybe she's there as a groupie, dressed to kill accompanied by a mesmerized lover she's already become tired of. Unlike you, the narcissist is watching ever person there intently, like a predator watching a group of wildebeest on the plains of the Serengetti.

A single glance tells the narcissist much - that one is too confident - hard to take down; that one is too mousey - nothing to offer; that one is a possibility - nicely dressed, cell phone, perhaps a bit uncertain, new on the scene. The narcissist strikes up conversations easily - s/he has no inner censor holding them back. The narcissist will easily say whatever he thinks his possible prey might want to hear. Are you carrying a copy of "The Fountainhead"? The narcissist will pause as s/he HAPPENS to pass your table and comment that he hopes the local Libertarian candidate will win that seat on the City Council. If you had been holding a copy of "Das Kapital", the narcissist would have remarked with equal sincerity that he hoped a socialist would win the up-coming election.

Narcissists and psychopaths are masters at the art of flirtation. They often have a compelling gaze and will hold your eyes should you chance to glance their way. They seldom are crude or over bearing but will let you know in a thousand small ways that they find you attractive. Their hand will accidently brush yours as they reach over to pick up your copy of "The Fountainhead" (having politely asked your permission to see the book, first). If the narcissist senses you are responding in a positive fashion, he'll up his attentions slightly. Glance back at you and smile as he returns to his table, look over at you to see if you are watching when it comes his turn to play and let his eyes rest on you for a long moment before returning his gaze back to his own hands on his guitar.

You begin to feel that perhaps this person just might be simpatico - s/he seems interested but not forcing the issue, and you return that interest. The trap has been set....

[WabUfvot5]

I hope you now understand May How many have you encountered? There are 5 I have found (never met one in person but fits all the traits and others agree) so far. I'm sure there were more but wasn't enough to determine. And of course all these were discovered after the fact

[May]

Well,it's hard to recognise them Jebediah..it takes time to realise who is who.After my last unsucessful "friendship" i thought that something is very wrong with me,although i couldn't understand what is that.Sad...

Originally Posted by May

Until i didnt read your text,i thought i was the only one being a magnet for psychopaths and narcissists...from your point of you i found out that we live in a jungle of narcissists and it is my duty to recognise them and take care...thank you

Well, I wouldn't call it a jungle of narcissist and psychopaths, but they most certainly are out there, and an encounter with one is more likely than most people realize. I personally have met two. I think I am somewhat susceptible to the breed because my own Momster had strong narcissistic tendencies. I know how to "do" being with a narcissist. It feels so familiar and hooks me back into my own family of origin issues.

I now know to avoid the "fixer-upper" guy - the handy woman's dream. N's and P's always tell you such tragic stories and they seem almost perfect and surely the love of a good woman is all they need. All the women before you just didn't love the poor boy enough or in the right way or have the intelligence and caring instincts that YOU do! Wrong! They had these things to excess, probably just like you do.

Early on a narcissist will often even warn you not to trust him. He'll say, "I'm no good," or "I never seem to be really able to love anyone." My former narcissist, the "ax murderer", as I have fondly nick-named him, informed me that he shared the same birthday as Benedict Arnold. He told me that every woman before me ended up telling him he had no heart. They were right.

Your best protection is to develop a healthy set of boundaries and avoid wounded birds like the plague. A man who has been divorced is one thing, but a man who has been divorced 4 times, has a long string of love affairs that never lasted, and a number of ex's who refuse to ever speak to him again is another. Someone who is "too" perfect just might not be what he seems. In the words of Diana Ross, "You can't hurry love." Take is slow, and look very hard before you leap.

No, there's not a narcissist or a psychopath hiding behind every tree, but at 10% of the population, there are enough of them to make it necessary to be aware of what you may be getting into.

[WabUfvot5]

Originally Posted by May

Well,it's hard to recognise them Jebediah..it takes time to realise who is who.After my last unsucessful "friendship" i thought that something is very wrong with me,although i couldn't understand what is that.Sad...

They fool almost everybody. If they didn't they quickly end up dead or in jail. It wasn't until somebody else explained (after socio #4) all this that I could look back and recognize who was and wasn't. There could be others who completely fooled me too; hard to say. Hopefully you will learn to spot some of their traits and avoid further interaction with them. The smart ones run diversion but a snake will always slither.

[Harlan]

Without empathy, there can be no love.

That's nicely put and very true.