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Parenting Bringing up the shorties so they aren't completely messed up

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Old 11-17-2005, 06:15 PM   #46
Trilby
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I've just jumped in here without reading the thread but I'd like to say my fourteen year-old has a boatload of homework every night and it's difficult, dammit! It REALLY is! I don't recall all this jazz when I was in 8th grade...yikes!
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Old 11-17-2005, 07:32 PM   #47
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What pisses me off is when I can get the correct answer to a math problem - but I can't get to it the right way! That's frustrating to me because math is so important in life, why in the hell would they make it harder than it really is?
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:20 AM   #48
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The "right" way has changed since you were in school. Based on my friend's kids' textbooks, I'd say it's changed at least three times since I learned Math.

The stupidest innovation in Math education that I can think of is "understanding the process without worrying so much about whether or not you get the right answer." I sure as shit hope that kid never ends up doing my taxes for me.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:35 PM   #49
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A few years ago, I pissed my son's 4th grade teacher off when I sent a note to her requesting that she send something home for me so that I could help him with something they were doing at that time. I wrote to her that "I had learned it in shcool, but since I'd never used it in the real world, I couldn't remember how to do it". She wasn't pleased and didn't help me at all!
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Old 11-19-2005, 09:33 PM   #50
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American schools long were (in)famous for handing out very little homework. Probably because the teachers hated grading it. Then, in the 80's and 90's, the blame for the relative lack of education of American students compared to European and (especially) Asian students got pinned on "not enough time in school and not enough homework". Articles contained lines like "Japanese students in school 16 hours a day, 6 days a week, 60 weeks a year, and are assigned 25 hours of homework a day; why can't American students do the same?". There was some movement towards a longer school day but inertia and teacher's unions won out in most districts. But more homework? Hey, that's easy. Just assign more of the same crap being assigned before. Make it either easy to grade (like math problems) or impossible to objectively do so (so the teacher can make something up). Doesn't do any good, does much harm.

As for the school/prison comparison -- well, in schools you get to go home evenings and weekends. And the violence between students is less often allowed to escalate to rape and murder.
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:49 AM   #51
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I've had at least a B average for my entire school career(senior in College now) and have never studied or done homework for any more than a couple-three hours per week. Granted, I've never had Honors, AP or gifted classes.

My brother is a senior in high school, has a borderline A average, is in mostly Honors classes and plays football. He doesn't study much if any more than I do.

Most homework that teachers, in my experience, will assign is do-able by a monkey and fakeable by any reasonably intelligent person in a fraction of the time it would take to actually do the work.

Math is really fucked up in the public schools I was exposed to. On what planet does it take 9 months to teach a 3rd grader how to multiply and divide? Timed multiplication and division exercises are all I recall doing in 3rd grade math. Also a lot of the Algebra, Geometry and Trigonometry I got in High School was so out of context that it was nearly incomprehensible.

Sorry about the mindless rant but the U.S. school system fucked me up something fierce.
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:34 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant
Most homework that teachers, in my experience, will assign is do-able by a monkey and fakeable by any reasonably intelligent person in a fraction of the time it would take to actually do the work.

Are you saying that I am a monkey or a stupid person? MY SON'S HOMEWORK IS ACTUALLY DIFFICULT. Maybe you lived in a district that didn't have any standards?
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Old 11-21-2005, 12:41 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
Are you saying that I am a monkey or a stupid person? MY SON'S HOMEWORK IS ACTUALLY DIFFICULT. Maybe you lived in a district that didn't have any standards?
My point is simply that 99% of the things you get homework for can be finished through mechanical means or have no objective correct answer and are therefore fake-able.

I attended public school in 3 very good districts. We had tons of assignments and evaluation and plodding, boring, repetitive activities. I had many teachers who were enthusiastic and cared about students and teaching, they generally weren't at fault. The big problem is the degree that they were tied to a curriculum and prescribed teaching methods.

I've noticed many of the same things in college (University at Albany and Hudson Valley Community College) that I did in the public school system. The primary difference between the two systems is that the college learning environment is a few degrees cooler.
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:20 PM   #54
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...Moving right along...

This thread has real current meaning and value for me. I'll step in and invite your input.

Here and here are a couple of posts that have gotten me to this point.

As to throwing lumps of cold iron at his video-game-playing head...(good one jinx)

I use **every** bit of parental/tutorial/bribing/cajoling/enticing skill I have to extract those questions, and meet with only ... marginal success.

I am a big fan of the Socratic method. I understand it's usefulness. I am less skilled at managing the carrot/stick balance. Homework wars are definitely wearing me out.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:05 PM   #55
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BigV,
How old is your son?
Have you read "In the absence of the Sacred" or "Four arguments for the elimination of Television"? Both by Jerry Mander (I'm sure he loved his parents for that one.)

You will find them extraordinary reads, if not, I'll buy them from you. I bought 20 copies of the former and gave them all away.

I suspect that you need to undo some habits. For instance. I stopped watching TV in 1977. There have been a couple of times since then that I would go on a small jag of watching x files for about half a season, or miami vice for a season. but basically, no tv. Maybe we see a video a couple of times a month.

Whatever else you do, kill your TV. It will be no less gruesome than weaning or watching your son clean up from heroin cold turkey. Do it while you can afford the lack of sleep.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:45 PM   #56
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May I acknowlede the wisdom of your suggestion and bemoan its Herculean proportions without having to traipse over the the GenSup thread?

I'd have to kill five or six televisions. And I'd be alone in my relief, trapped in the company of three jonesing addicts. And then there's the several hundred videos and dvds. And the elimination of the tv would seriously dilute the threat of losing game console privileges.

Just typing that out makes me weary. I am not equal to that task. I can imagine I could put the heel of my boot to the throat of the monster--strict time limits on screen time. A program like that is already in place at HouseofV. Limits, yes. Absence? It's not really practical, not possible. For one thing, the television is one of two links to SonofV the Elder. You may remember he is enrolled at Gallaudet University (waaaay the heck over there), and since he's deaf, if we want a realtime conversation, we use the tv for videoconferencing. In the past we've used text messages, email, voice relay, tty, etc. They're ~ok~ but definitely lack the immediacy of seeing each other talk (sign).

Ok, I've revealed my weakness. I've shown my desire to make excuses. But my commitment to SonofV the Younger is undiminished. I know it's a harder road to travel when staying away from the tv requires discipline, compared to not having the temptation.

I'm not saying you're not right--I'm saying I'm not strong enough for that part of the task.

He and I sure do need to trade in some habits. The which and the how is the tricky part.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:27 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV
May I acknowlede the wisdom of your suggestion and bemoan its Herculean proportions without having to traipse over the the GenSup thread?

I'd have to kill five or six televisions. And I'd be alone in my relief, trapped in the company of three jonesing addicts. And then there's the several hundred videos and dvds. And the elimination of the tv would seriously dilute the threat of losing game console privileges.

Just typing that out makes me weary. I am not equal to that task. I can imagine I could put the heel of my boot to the throat of the monster--strict time limits on screen time. A program like that is already in place at HouseofV. Limits, yes. Absence? It's not really practical, not possible. For one thing, the television is one of two links to SonofV the Elder. You may remember he is enrolled at Gallaudet University (waaaay the heck over there), and since he's deaf, if we want a realtime conversation, we use the tv for videoconferencing. In the past we've used text messages, email, voice relay, tty, etc. They're ~ok~ but definitely lack the immediacy of seeing each other talk (sign).

Ok, I've revealed my weakness. I've shown my desire to make excuses. But my commitment to SonofV the Younger is undiminished. I know it's a harder road to travel when staying away from the tv requires discipline, compared to not having the temptation.

I'm not saying you're not right--I'm saying I'm not strong enough for that part of the task.

He and I sure do need to trade in some habits. The which and the how is the tricky part.
OK. Well read the books anyway, before you start anything drastic. The tv videoconferencing sounds great, you wouldn't want to lose that. But that is what tv should be about.

This is not an overnight quick fix a la "just do x and it works every time" After reading the books you'll have a lot more ammo to convince him that he doesn't want to watch tv It is an education strategy. You can get him to realize how awful it truly is. It will take a little finesse on your part and the bait and switch doesn't hurt either. You two go bike riding now, no?

Anyway. gotta go right now.
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Last edited by footfootfoot; 01-26-2006 at 11:42 AM. Reason: /before i, or when souding like y, except after hey, as in bubba! and jack!
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:35 AM   #58
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I know it would be hard, but you really should think about it V. One of the smart things we did was to make it a house rule when the kids were little, ~3, that there would be no tv on school nights. Other nights, the tv is only used as a monitor for the dvd and vcr.

I can't say for sure that the above is the reason, but we've never had trouble getting the kids to do homework. I like to think they're pretty interesting kids too.
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV
I'd have to kill five or six televisions. And I'd be alone in my relief, trapped in the company of three jonesing addicts. And then there's the several hundred videos and dvds. And the elimination of the tv would seriously dilute the threat of losing game console privileges.
Yikes!
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:15 PM   #60
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Addicting him to reading may be your only hope. Good luck.
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