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Old 04-29-2020, 03:27 AM   #616
DanaC
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Old 04-29-2020, 03:45 AM   #617
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I struggled to understand the appeal of Bush to voters, back in the day, but I could, if I tilted my head a little and squinted a bit, kind of see what they were seeing.

I look at Trump, and I really, really struggle to see what it is that his followers like. It is beyond baffling. Every other sentence he utters is a bare faced lie, often contradicting the previous barefaced lie he just delivered with a straight face. Not like a lie another politician might speak, which has some kind of credibility and needs to be uncovered - just a straight to the camera, bald as you like, absolute lie that sits glowing in the sun for all to see.

He shows zero leadership - he can't muster the slightest hint of the statesman, General, or public servant even when handed the perfect opportunity to do so. He accepts zero responsibility for anything, openly casts blame on his underlings and throws his friends under the bus without a second's hesitation.

Faced with a death toll in the tens of thousands, he projects partisan triumphalism and crows about how well he is doing while showing zero empathy for those lost or bereaved.

All the while stirring up civil discontent and protest over lockdown restrictions.

How is he both the head of the government and the rallying call against government all at the same time?

I can only assume at this stage that for most of his still loyal supporters this is the sunk cost fallacy in action.
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:45 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post

I look at Trump, and I really, really struggle to see what it is that his followers like. It is beyond baffling. Every other sentence he utters is a bare faced lie, often contradicting the previous barefaced lie he just delivered with a straight face. Not like a lie another politician might speak, which has some kind of credibility and needs to be uncovered - just a straight to the camera, bald as you like, absolute lie that sits glowing in the sun for all to see.
There is a subset boiling with resentment who want the libs to pay. There is a subset who want a "strongman". There are rich folks who want to continue the GOP experiment with tax free living in a highly stratified society. There are the religious (abortion) and religious nuts (end-times). There are Red Team players who see center-right Biden and think of Communism.

What happened is by soaking in our own propaganda we lost the Cold War we won. We've been at war so long we have no vision for civilization. We've trained ourselves to believe government is bad at everything and we've elected our own proof. We need to repeat a year to catch up with the class. Unfortunately, this is that year and repeating it is gonna suck.
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:26 AM   #619
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My father's a lukewarm supporter-in-denial. He's the type who 1.) can't admit he's been conned, and 2.) hates Hillary with the fiery passion of a thousand red-hot suns. Ever since the Clinton presidency, just absolutely hates her. He's particularly obsessed with the title of her first book, "It Takes a Village," which he sees as a promise of Venezuelan socialism that is as firm or firmer than Hitler's promises in "Mein Kampf," which he often compares it to.

He largely avoids talking about politics these days, which is how I know he knows in his heart that Trump is an indefensible disaster--never in my life have I not heard my father talk politics. The two themes he sticks with, when he does talk, are "I don't care about what he says, I only care about what he does," and "Hillary would have been worse."
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:49 AM   #620
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I honestly don't think anybody would be worse, regardless of political persuasion.

It really is so strange to see people who clearly love their nation and have pride in the traditional values and virtues of that nation, choose someone so lacking in those values and virtues. I'd understand it more if he was a self made man - that at least would speak to the ethic of hard work and independence that always seemed such a strong component of the American culture - but he's an appalling business man who has left ruined participants to his crazy schemes in his wake.

He doesn't work hard, or even seemingly smart. He is petulant and more concerned about his image than anything else going on around him - and lacks any self awareness about his own limitations. He has no regard for loyalty either to his wife or his friends while demanding absolute loyalty from those around him. He doesnt have the capacity to accept that anybody else has more expertise than he does on anything.

He manifestly has no concept of how ordinary people live - and even less sympathy for them, yet has somehow been accepted as a man of the people.

Most politicians have at least a streak of narcissism, and some much more than a streak - this man takes it to an astonishing level.

People like that he says what he wants or what he means - except he rolls back on it in a heartbeat and tries to gaslight the nation into thinking he never said it - because he clearly possesses not a single actual conviction beyond self admiration
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:50 AM   #621
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It sounds like this wouldn't have been discussed, but do you think your father will vote for a Trump re-election or will he stay home because he secretly knows Trump is horrible?

My SOB is better than the other team's SOB, so I'll vote for my SOB.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:34 AM   #622
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I don't think anything could cause him to vote for a Dem; like you said, it's vote for the Republican or don't show up. But if by some asinine stupidity Biden made Hilary his VP, he'd definitely show up to vote against that.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:37 AM   #623
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
he never stops talking about fake news, but he is one of the prime vectors for misinformation in the world today
This. Right here.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:38 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by Griff View Post
There is a subset boiling with resentment who want the libs to pay.
What's cool is, now I feel the same way about them.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:56 AM   #625
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What's cool is, now I feel the same way about them.
Yeah, not a great dynamic.
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:01 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Yeah, not a great dynamic.
It is what it is.

When I say "them", of course, I am referring to the subset you were referring to.

There are lots of conservatives I don't wish ill upon. But the ones you describe, well...
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:14 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
He largely avoids talking about politics these days, which is how I know he knows in his heart that Trump is an indefensible disaster--never in my life have I not heard my father talk politics. The two themes he sticks with, when he does talk, are "I don't care about what he says, I only care about what he does," and "Hillary would have been worse."
how beautiful that your father has decided to abstain from something he was enthusiastic about, in order to have a better relationship with his daughter
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:05 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by sexobon View Post
I think he was serious about the concept he was trying to present: Introducing something with known topical antiviral properties into the body.

I think it was naive of him to use the words inject and disinfectant, even if sarcastically, and not realize the general public would associate that with using something like Clorox or Lysol for needle injection.
...
Trump, not having an aptitude for medicine, doesn't understand how this premise is limited in scope of application (he referenced the lungs) and the microorganisms it's used against (primarily bacteria).
So he was suggesting that medical researchers consider the idea of putting something inside the body to treat disease?

If you ignore enough words, then he was suggesting that researches should consider the concept of medication. That might be adorable from a toddler, but chronologically he isn't one.

As you ignore fewer of the words he said, it gets stupider and more dangerous from there.
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:24 PM   #629
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If you ignore enough of my words, then you are suggesting an altered meaning to what I said.
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:29 PM   #630
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Altered how? You said that the idea of internal medical treatment was valid, but the specific things to inject, mechanisms of injection, things that can be treated that way, and location of application were wrong.

To get to the point where what he said wasn't dangerous, you have to ignore enough to make what he said meaninglessly trivial.
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