The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Arts & Entertainment

Arts & Entertainment Give meaning to your life or distract you from it for a while

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2009, 12:43 PM   #1
Trilby
Slattern of the Swail
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,654
Sci-Fi Geeks Vs. Lit. Geeks

If it weren't for Cherry and Shawnee and Dana, I would feel like a lonely on a lonley planet (called Cellar Alpha Squad 7 starring Tek Jansen) because fully 2/3 of you are Sci-Fi (or should I say SyFy?) geekazoids who knew what a Triffid was before I had my first beer and I am into the Classics.

I think we should rumble.

First punch: If Sci-Fi is so great, why hasn't any Sci-Fi writer ever won a Nobel, huh?
__________________
In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic.

"Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her.
—James Barrie


Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum
Trilby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 12:59 PM   #2
lumberjim
I can hear my ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,571
DORIS LESSING
__________________
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan
lumberjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 01:09 PM   #3
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
Frankenstein, by Mary Shelly, is both a classic and sci-fi. Have you read it, Brianna? What did you think?
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #4
Trilby
Slattern of the Swail
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,654
DARN YOU LESSING!
And to think - I read her Golden Notebook!!! I'd forgotten about her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
Frankenstein, by Mary Shelly, is both a classic and sci-fi. Have you read it, Brianna? What did you think?
haven't read Frankenstein yet...Mel Brooks kind of ruined it for me.
__________________
In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic.

"Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her.
—James Barrie


Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum
Trilby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 01:42 PM   #5
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
The bias against science fiction in literary circles is often strong enough that if a book is good enough, people will try their damnednest to justify not calling it science fiction. Ironically (because the opposite is true in SF circles), the less fantasy is mixed into the science fiction, the more some will insist it's not SF.

Not that I mean to denigrate fantasy, that genre is also unfairly maligned. Probably since the Victorian era, fantasy has been considered a children's genre, even though the older a surviving classic is, the more likely it is to be fantasy.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:06 PM   #6
SteveDallas
Your Bartender
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
So, Bri, you're saying that anybody who hasn't won the Nobel for literature isn't worth reading?
SteveDallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:16 PM   #7
Shawnee123
Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya?
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,206
I'm looking for Steinbeck fanfic. (lord I hope that doesn't exist.)
__________________
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice.
--Bill Cosby
Shawnee123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:28 PM   #8
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Fraid I am a total sci-fi geek Bri. Attitudes towards sci-fi and fantasy are all tied up with concepts of 'High' and 'Low' culture.

There is a place for the classics, there is also a place for sci-fi. And the truth is we have no idea what will count as a classic in a century or two. In 200 years students may be pretending to read the Belgariad in order to look cultured.

I read anything and everything. Though...I tend not to want to read it if someone tags it as Literature. There are exceptions to that: Dickens, Heller, Hemmingway to name a few.

I find the dividing line between sci-fi / fantasy and everything else, rather an artificial and unsatisfying one. Some of the most beautiful, lyrical, complex and literary works I've read have been in the 'sci-fi' section of the bookshop. Some of the most unengaging, self-indulgent, vapid nonsense has been sold to me as literature.

Read what thrills you. Work out why it thrills you. Thats what I find fun.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:39 PM   #9
Bullitt
This is a fully functional babe lair
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 2,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna View Post
haven't read Frankenstein yet...Mel Brooks kind of ruined it for me.
Take it back.
__________________
Kiss my white Irish ass.
Bullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:42 PM   #10
Cicero
Looking forward to open mic night.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,148
I didn't know we we dividing sci-fi from classics. Now we have the task of defining both of them to prove that they are mutually exclusive. Wow. Good luck on this tedious, futile task.
__________________
Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 04:28 PM   #11
Beestie
-◊|≡·∙■·∙≡|◊-
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts unknown.
Posts: 4,081
Science Fiction requires more imagination.

Hemingway and Steinbeck wrote what they knew from what they experienced. Jules Verne and Arthur C. Clark wrote of worlds that didn't exist in anyone's wildest dreams. 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and 2001 A Space Odyssey are every bit as visceral and real as The Fisherman and the Sea and The Great Gatsby.

Which pair of books would you imagine was more difficult to write? I'm not taking anything away from the literary giants. Except the presumption that their science fiction brethren don't belong in the same club.
__________________
Beestie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 05:05 PM   #12
Shawnee123
Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya?
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,206
Absolutely there is a lot of sci-fi/fantasy type literature which is beautifully written. Some of those that fall into the classics realm, I've read. Not because I'm a snob, but because literature as art (meaning in this case that it endures) fascinates me, and I took a lot of lit electives in college.

I've said before I am more into the "slice of life" type of books, looking at the human condition, a study of frailty and strength and emotion. There are plenty of these types of books that fall into the category of not so good, as well. Classics of any genre live on.

I think I should expand my horizons and try some books that have been mentioned previously.

Great writing is great writing.

eta: Beestie, truly those are all great books, but I take issue with the presumption that less imagination is used when doing what Hemingway (I'm assuming you meant The Old Man and the Sea?) and Fitzgerald did when capturing the seemingly simple; so complex.
__________________
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice.
--Bill Cosby
Shawnee123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 05:06 PM   #13
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
But ... but ... I like both.

There is good and bad in both genres.

I would say that writing good SF is harder, because you must first know some good science, know where the cutting edge of science is up to, then stretch your imagination beyond that, being creative yet keeping it at least "possible" given what we know about science so far. And then be able to construct an interesting plot and believable characters, and then be able to write well.

And I know that if you want to look like a real geek you should call it SF not SciFi. Dunno why though. Geeks can be pretty snobby sometimes.
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 05:28 PM   #14
Cloud
...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,360
but what about classic SF?

and Arthur C. Clarke was nominated for a Nobel peace prize.
__________________
"Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"
Cloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 06:22 PM   #15
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
I just find the distinction so articifial. Like Cloud says, what about Classic SF? The Time Machine...literature or science fiction? It's a silly choice it makes no sense. Science Fiction is a genre. Literature is not a genre. Science Fiction exists within and without Literature as a category.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
books, science fiction


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.