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Old 08-01-2018, 12:38 PM   #1
henry quirk
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What should a community/nation/state (government) provide for citizens?

nada

police

courts

military

roads

fire protection

education

limited housing

limited healthcare

retirement insurance

unemployment insurance

universal healthcare

food

housing

clothing

energy


Copy only the items you think should be provided and paste them into your response field.

Explain your choices as little or as much as you like.

Last edited by henry quirk; 08-01-2018 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:02 PM   #2
xoxoxoBruce
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police
courts ---- Judicial system

military ---Defense only

roads
fire protection
education

retirement insurance--- Social Security

unemployment insurance--- Self Funding

food
housing
clothing------ Temporary Emergency Situations

universal healthcare-- Government run single payer system -- The heavily funded by the libertarian Koch family Mercatus Center says Medicare-for-All would save us $2.054 TRILLION in 10 years.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:55 PM   #3
Undertoad
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any of the above that a fairly-elected representative government decides should be managed that way
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:44 AM   #4
glatt
 
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And other stuff too, like regulating public resources for the greatest good for individuals.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:25 AM   #5
xoxoxoBruce
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Originally Posted by glatt View Post
And other stuff too, like regulating public resources for the greatest good for individuals.
Public resources? Do you mean like petroleum, natural gas, minerals, timber, water, etc?
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:48 AM   #6
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Yes. And radio frequencies, etc.

Let's say there is a new colony located at the base of a forest covered mountain. It's very Henry Quirkish where the government just lets people be. And the townsfolk need firewood, so each day the fair citizens go up into the foothills and cut down some trees. After a while, the forest has receded, and the mudslides begin, wiping out the town below. If they had a government regulating how much wood could be taken, and how, the forest could be sustained and also provide some lumber/firewood, and the town doesn't get buried in the mudslide. It's the kind of thing you need a government to control because left to their own devices, each person is going to think that surely cutting down this one tree today for myself isn't going to be a problem.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:53 PM   #7
henry quirk
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Glatt,

You describe a 'tragedy of the commons'.

Consider: a new colony located at the base of a forest covered mountain. There is no formal governmrnt and each colonist is a self-directing type.

Immediately folks get to claiming property left and right. Of course there'll be skirmishes and jumped claims and bloodshed, but once the dust settles there won't be a 'commons'.

The self-regulation of such an arrangement, I think, is superior to regulation from the outside (or 'above').
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:21 PM   #8
henry quirk
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Bruce (and others), you pretty much want the whole schmear...

...for everyone, I'm guessin'.

What's the 'cost' of such a thing?
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
Immediately folks get to claiming property left and right. Of course there'll be skirmishes and jumped claims and bloodshed, but once the dust settles there won't be a 'commons'.

The self-regulation of such an arrangement, I think, is superior to regulation from the outside (or 'above').
It's substantially inferior, even setting aside bloodshed vs. law, and the dubious concept of "when the dust settles".
"The commons" is not just "unclaimed land". It is also "the forest" that covers all the land parcels. It is in everyone's interest for the forest to be healthy, but it's in each individual's interest to exploit it in their preferred way. If too many of them sell off their lumber, a mudslide takes them all out.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:03 PM   #10
henry quirk
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please, consult the opening post: i wanna see your list

"It's substantially inferior"

I disagree.

#

"It's in each individual's interest for the forest to be healthy and used wisely."

Yep.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
"It's in each individual's interest for the forest to be healthy and used wisely."

Yep.
Left to their own devices, people time and time again act in a greedy way to get ahead at the expense of society.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:33 PM   #12
henry quirk
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"Left to their own devices, people time and time again act in a greedy way..."

"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind" -Frederic Bastiat
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:34 PM   #13
xoxoxoBruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
...for everyone, I'm guessin'.

What's the 'cost' of such a thing?
Cost of everything? For health care, $2 Trillion less than we spend now, for the rest, a lot less than the cost of not having them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind" -Frederic Bastiat
Theoretically, an individual decides between himself and others, whereas the legislator deciding between doing what's best for everyone or a few, with no(or very little) skin in the game.
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:04 PM   #14
Diaphone Jim
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http://www.worldometers.info/

There 7,640,184,300 (and counting) people on earth.
Climate change is increasing exponentially.
Food, water and air supplies are stretched to breaking.

The questions henry asks come way too late.
The biosphere is toast.
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:38 PM   #15
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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good?"

Because in a proper representative government, we the people are the organizers.
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