Was Sandra Bland guilty of "driving while black"?

[chrisinhouston]

I don't watch any TV news at all. I mostly get news from the radio, my local NPR or their national shows. I read news at a lot of websites. Some are newspaper ones, others are purely internet based news sites. For the last 48 hours the story of Sandra Bland being stopped by the DPS trooper in Hempstead, TX has been a pretty frequent topic.

So now that the dash cam video and a transcript has been released and lots of experts have weighed in here is my take. And by experts I don't mean talking heads on TV but I've heard several law enforcement professors and lawyers who handle civil rights cases, I consider them to be pretty knowledgeable in their fields. Most that I have heard have said this DPS trooper was way off base to arrest her.

She said she moved over without signalling to let the cop pass her but he stops her and after running her ID decides to give her a warning. I have gotten a few over the years and while I would rather have one than a ticket what is the point of them? Does it some how justify the police being out on their beat? Why not just a verbal warning? Anyway, so she is upset and who isn't upset at being stopped especially if you thought you were just yielding the road to the police cruiser. So he asks her if she is upset and why and she tells him. I thought she was fairly polite, she pointed out that she wanted to give him room to pass.

Then he asks her to put out her cigarette which from just about everything I have read or heard was just in the ashtray, not like she was waving at him or blowing smoke in his face. She declines and says it's her car... seems legal to me. He orders her out of the car. She protests and repeatedly asks why. He tells her she is under arrest and she asks why and what is the charge which he never answers.

Things get more heated and he reaches in (putting himself at risk) and then points his stun gun at her and threatens to "light her up" if she does not comply. Now a Taser is supposed to be your last option before using your side arm and it is really meant for when an officer feels threatened. Experts agree it is not intended as a tool to get people to move along or get out of a car.

She finally complies and they argue back and forth and unfortunately go off camera. He repeatedly gives her conflicting commands like "Stay here", "Go there." Yes it didn't help that she finally gets so mad and frustrated that she calls him names but that is not against the law.

Over the years I have been stopped by police, mostly for minor things and I have always found that here in Texas the DPS are the nicest most polite police around. For the life of me I can't figure out why this one escalated the situation. Of course he claims he was trying to calm her down in his police report and when he was recorded talking to the other officers but the dash cam video and transcript don't support that.

Sad because she is dead now. Why knows why someone takes their life. I came close to suicide a few year back so I know it doesn't make any sense except to the person who is very depressed and considers it. Now they say she used the phone in her cell to call a friend and left a message that she was upset and couldn't believe she got arrested for not using a turn signal.

The funny thing is that I've seen comments in news websites and forums about how she deserved it and asked for it by being argumentative. Briebart News even said police often instruct suspects to put out cigarettes because they could be used as a weapon... For real??? Some have said that she appeared to roll through a stop sign without stopping before the lane change but the officer never mentions that so it is irrelevant even if it did happen.

The other thing is that he gave her back her ID and was going to give her a warning and then he suddenly is arresting her. He never says why she is being arrested? He doesn't claim he feared for his safety. He later claims he arrested her for assaulting him but she certainly didn't assault him when he first told her she was under arrest. This whole thing doesn't seem right.

[Happy Monkey]

All of the stupidity coming out of this PD makes me think they're used to being able to throw people down a hole with no oversight, and are unprepared for this new climate of questioning stuff like this,

[Gravdigr]

I heard some good advice given by a retired-former police officer-turned-fish & game officer-turned stand-up comedian. He, as a fish & game officer, had pulled over a guy to warn him about his driving habits. The guy began bitching up and down about how this guy "wasn't even a cop". The guy got a ticket.

The officer's advice?

If it has blue lights and a gun, don't fuck with it.

The cop/fish&game guy's name was Donnie Something-or-other. I heard him on The Bob & Tom Show (morning radio) years ago. He was pretty funny.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's good advice, but this sounds like an asshole cop out of control. They're a small minority but they are everywhere. The tragedy is they don't exist in a vacuum, their fellow cops know who they are, but will back them to the hilt.

[Happy Monkey]

If the advice you give someone for dealing with police is the same as you might give for dealing with wild predatory animals, that is a severe indictment of police.

It's amazing how often the argument is made, even by police spokesmen in the news, that police are not responsible for their own actions if somebody annoys them.

[Gravdigr]

More proof of power tripping cops...

[Pamela]

Perhaps not.

Apparently, Bland had a history of DUIs and other run-ins with police.

See here for another take

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If the advice you give someone for dealing with police is the same as you might give for dealing with wild predatory animals, that is a severe indictment of police.

Well put.

[chrisinhouston]

Originally Posted by Pamela

Perhaps not.

Apparently, Bland had a history of DUIs and other run-ins with police.

See here for another take

That might explain the frustration at being stopped by the DPS and also her depression to the point of taking her own life. But it doesn't the way she was treated by the DPS.

Also, wouldn't those priors all show up when the trooper ran her ID? Unlikely she would get a warning with that many recent citations. Furthermore, she would have had to have been current on her insurance or that's an automatic ticket.

By the way, that website you referenced is pretty lame as well as those commenting. The "About Us" section is a real joke!

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by chrisinhouston

...
Over the years I have been stopped by police, mostly for minor things and I have always found that here in Texas the DPS are the nicest most polite police around.

You're a white male.

Originally Posted by chrisinhouston

For the life of me I can't figure out why this one escalated the situation. ...

She wasn't a white male.

Originally Posted by Pamela

Perhaps not.

Apparently, Bland had a history of DUIs and other run-ins with police.

See here for another take

Previous record should have nothing to do with the current interaction.

[chrisinhouston]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

You're a white male.

Yes, but in the handful of police stops I've had the DPS officers were polite to the point of apologizing for stopping me even if I was at fault. The other cops were not.

In fact the most unpleasant experience I had was driving back to Texas from Georgia where I had been taking care of my parents. I was on State Highway 59 as it heads south from Texarcana to my home in Kingwood and was almost home. This section of highway goes through a lot of towns and the speed limits go up and down in a manner that I am sure was designed to entrap motorists. I was in a 75mph zone that suddenly with little warning dropped to 55 and an officer from the small town of Shepherd, Texas was waiting around the bend and stopped me. Downright rude guy who said some rather insulting things. I let it slide and was able to do the safe driver video course and just pay the court costs and get the ticket dismissed. Later found out this is one of the worst speed traps in the area.

[Undertoad]

Also, wouldn't those priors all show up when the trooper ran her ID?

I haven't watched the entire traffic stop video, but I understand the cop walked away saying she was getting a warning, and came back gave her the written warning and then started ratcheting up the situation. Everyone said, why is he ratcheting up the situation now, when it's basically over?

OK that's why. If he's a simple racist asshole cop he ratchets it up right away. This guy, ready to let her go until he finds she has this prior DUI and, with all these fines, almost certainly a warrant; and goes into asshole mode because at that point he is permitted.

We can say he should be more sensitive and not go into asshole mode even when permitted. But we have to hire a better level of cop in order to do that. Previously we have sometimes gone so far as to ban people from being cops if their IQ is too high.

This whole thing is absolutely representative of where we are now. It's "Yeah, but still" mode. They killed her in her jail cell. No it turns out they didn't. Yeah, but still. Get out the hashtags, the rabble is roused and there is energy to be mined from this thing. Who can we get? What societal change can we focus this mob on? How do we get more meaning out of this increasingly meaningless event -- without focusing one iota on the underlying personal depression that likely actually caused it?

And it all ends the very first instant there is something more newsworthy.

[BigV]

It ends for you because you find it unnewsworthy.

It doesn't end for the family of the woman who died. I know it won't end for the police department. It likely won't end for the trooper in question, regardless of the outcome.

I watched the whole unedited video, and I'm not a lawyer. But the stories I've read about the incident seem to indicate that the trooper's gonna have a hard time justifying the whole thing. As a civilian, I see it as a MASSIVE overreaction, straight up power tripping police brutality on the trooper's part.

And I wish it would end, people dying at the hands of the police or in jail. Failure to signal should not be a capital crime. I wish it would, but it won't.

[Happy Monkey]

We always hear all this "oppo research" on people the cops kill.

It's irrelevant.

Nothing justifies the officer's behavior at the stop.

[Undertoad]

Right and I did say that, but that's the point: it goes from killed by cops, to treated harshly during a traffic stop. Did she kill herself because the cop was an asshole? No, of course not, so now it's newsflash: asshole cops are assholes. Well now that's something we can have faux outrage over! Cops are assholes, I was somehow unaware of that! Media on high alert! Event attention redirect! Nobody put out your flaming torches just yet! There is work to be done!

It ends for you because you find it unnewsworthy.

And for you. Despite your moralizing, there will not be one post from you about Ms. Bland, after about one week from today.