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Parenting Bringing up the shorties so they aren't completely messed up

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Old 12-23-2004, 11:06 AM   #1
OnyxCougar
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Child Support or Vengence Money?

The Players:

Husband - my current husband
Bitch - Husband's ex and mother of his two children
Cop - The man Bitch left Husband for, and is still living with but not married to.
Girls - Husband's two female children, living with their mother, Bitch.

The Background:
Husband was married to Bitch for 10 years. (They had been dating for 2 years before that.) They lost one daughter at 3 days old during the dating phase, and got married soon after. The Girls followed. Husband and Bitch decided that he would work and pay for her to go to tech school and watch Girl #1, then when she got a good job, she would work and watch girl #1 while he did same. They had girl #2 right at the end of Bitch's schooling. Husband ended up working 3 jobs while Bitch was watching girls and couldn't get a job.

In 2001, Bitch met Cop and had an affair. She kicked Husband out so that she could move Cop in and filed for divorce.

The divorce decree does not even mention the children, let alone provide for support or custody. I find this strange. Husband does not remember being served papers or getting notification of a divorce hearing. He remembers being given the final decree. Again, no mention of the children in the decree. At all.

Bitch and Cop move to Georgia. Husband is living in NJ and MI, pays her a little money a month (about $300) even though there is no official support arrangement, he wants to take care of his girls. He doesn't get down to GA to visit them often, (can't afford it) but he sends the CS checks in a card, and calls almost every week. Mails Christmas presents.

March 2003 Husband moves to NV (where he meets me) and pays her some there with money orders, then he moves to NC with me in Aug 03.

September 2003 we get married, and I start writing the CS checks from my bank account. He was out of work for a while, but when he did get back to work, he tried to catch up on his payments. Keep in mind these are strictly voluntary payments, no CS has been ordered.

We send a bunch of Christmas gifts in 2003.

In April, we rent a car, drive from NC to GA (10 hours) and pick up the girls, drive back, and have them for a week, then rent another car, drive down there and take them back.

In June I get my two boys back from my ex, and we find out girl #1 has diabetes. We discuss sending more money to help defray medical costs, but we can't afford it.

In Sept Husband finally gets a good job but he's a temp, so doesn't get benefits.

In October he goes from Temp to Perm, so we put my two boys on his insurance and he asked her if she wanted him to put the girls on his insurance. She said no, she has a really great insurance and only pays $15 a month for both girls on her insurance. OK.

Yesterday, my husband gets served with Child Support Enforcement paperword from NC. Apperantly, Bitch filed on January 21, 2004 and it went to GA CSE, who forwarded it to NC CSE, who finally served us yesterday.

She's asking for unspecified Child Support and Medical Coverage, backdated to January 21.

At NO time from Jan 21 to now (even when we asked if she wanted the girls on medical) did she tell us she filed anything. On the paperwork, she does not list Cop's income (even though he helps support her and the kids. We know this because she's told us during conversations about how they couldn't afford the phone bill, and they were evicted for not paying rent and they were moving in with her brother.) and she does NOT list all the money Husband has been sending her every month. She says her sole income is her job, that she makes $1100 to $1600 a month, and her outgo is $1536 a month. In addition, she has her rent listed as $250 for her and $500 for the girls, and food as $600 a month for the family. It doesn't break down how much her total rent is, so I don't know if she pays $750 total and is trying to say Cop doesn't pay rent or if it's $1000 a month and she's saying Cop is paying $250. But she LIED, under oath, when she said she doesn't get any income from Husband.

Now, we fully realize and acknowledge that Husband needs to be supporting his kids. And that $300 isn't much at all for 2 kids. And if we could afford to send more, we would. But at the same time, it's not like he's a deadbeat dad who doesn't care or WANT to support them.

I was livid last night when I got home. I slept badly and little last night, and I'm at a place now where all I can do is try to prove to the court how much we make and how much we owe monthly, and show that we really can't afford more than $300 right now.

I want the court to see that she's perjured herself and give us credit for all the money we've given her (we're working on documentation) and we want to show that he's been as active as he can be for hundreds of miles away.

I don't believe this is just about her getting more money for the girls. I think she wants to milk as much as possible from Husband because he married me and we're happy. She is a miserable, lying person and wants to make everyone else as miserable as she can.

This directly affects my finances, and MY children as well. I got a phone call two weeks ago from my ex, he's going to Iraq, so I'm getting my daughter New Year's Eve through at least June, probably longer. I don't get child support from my boys' fathers, it's just me and Husband making it as best we can.

I fear the worst: NC is going to nail us with $1200 a month child support and we will go under. We're barely making it now, and have put off paying other bills just to make sure Bitch was paid every month.

I don't know what to do.
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Old 12-23-2004, 11:57 AM   #2
Troubleshooter
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Unless you get an attorney you just have to bend over and take it.

Welcome to the world of the non-custodial parent.

Lubrication not provided.
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Old 12-23-2004, 11:59 AM   #3
perth
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Y'know, this probably doesn't help you much, but at our final hearing, the judge asked Case and I both to confirm that we were waiving the right to request child support and maintenance. Paraphrasing a bit, but when the judge asked the question, she included a statement like "you realise that by waiving this right, you also relinquish any and all future claims to child support and maintenance". She made it very clear that it would be a closed issue, and that neither of us could ever go to court and say "I've changed my mind, I want child support". This was in Colorado, and the law does vary state-by-state, but it might be worth checking into.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:02 PM   #4
OnyxCougar
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Well, that could be a factor, because in the final decree (that doesn't mention the children) there is a line about how all other issues not brought forth within the decree are (paraphrasing) dismissed and it's over.

We're calling NJ to get a full and complete copy of the divorce, to see if she even put the kids in there. Husband doesn't remember signing anything, including a petition, all he got was a copy of the signed decree saying he was divorced.

So we'll see what the dillio is with that.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:03 PM   #5
wolf
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To get it out of the way ... if you don't want to make the (bank) withdrawals, don't make the (sperm) deposit.

Get an attorney. You may need more than one, since there are multiple state jurisdictions involved.

Get your documentation together. If it's not in writing, or with evidence of a cancelled check, it didn't happen.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:14 PM   #6
OnyxCougar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
To get it out of the way ... if you don't want to make the (bank) withdrawals, don't make the (sperm) deposit.
He's happy to help support his children. That is not even the issue.

Quote:
Get an attorney. You may need more than one, since there are multiple state jurisdictions involved.
How we're going to afford that I don't know.

Quote:
Get your documentation together. If it's not in writing, or with evidence of a cancelled check, it didn't happen.
Already started. I was on the phone all morning getting the copies of the cancelled checks that have been written since he moved in with me ($3750) and he will be calling his former banks in MI and NJ to get statements and then check copies from them to prove from 01 through 03. Also, we are getting a full and complete copy of the divorce decree. If she divorced him on a publication basis, which you can only do if you don't know where the spouse is, then she lied, because he was calling the girls every week and she knew damn well where he was.

We're looking into phone records to prove that, too.
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:43 PM   #7
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I'm only speaking with experience of the laws in Texas, but I can't imagine they're that drastically different from NC.


First off, don't give her ANY more money until a child support order is in place. In Texas at least, such payments DO NOT COUNT even if you have cancelled checks and utter proof that you gave her that money--the money must go through the system for it to count, and that's explicitly stated in the standard child support order. Money given before the courts step in can be counted in some cases, but once they're involved they want control of all money that passes hands.

Secondly (again I'm only sure about Texas) there is a cap on how much of his income they can take, and they can't consider yours at all--30% of gross is all they can take, and he can argue for the right to deduct them as dependents on his taxes.

Third, check out www.fathers.org. They're a legal advocacy group for men being screwed by Bitches (TM). I think they're local, but they may have links to a group closer to you. Sometimes they have lawyers who will take cases pro bono.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:47 PM   #8
OnyxCougar
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Thanks, Clod. I've been looking at some websites and talking to my friend who knows people in similar situations, and she told me they don't count my income, (which is a huge load off my mind), and pointed me to two different calculators. It appears that the most they'll be taking is about $500, and a low end number is about $300. If it comes down to it, I can probably get a personal loan from my aunt to pay off my car ($200 a month) and we'll be able to pay her back at $50 a month for the rest of my life.

We had already decided she wasn't going to get a damn thing now until we're told to pay her, Husband is going down tomorrow and opening a checking account at the Credit Union and we'll continue to put $300 a month into that account, listed in the girls' name with Husband as trustee, until this is all settled. That way, if we do get nailed for back support (hopefully they will give us credit for the money we can prove we paid, about $2250 since January) we have a small reserve to pull from, and it also shows that we aren't trying to skip out on our responsibility.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:03 PM   #9
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Because I know firsthand that it can be hard to remember all the different aspects of a court order when you're actually standing there for hours in front of the judge, here are some things that you should definitely remember to bring up:

1.) Medical Insurance - The standard order calls for the father to pay for and maintain insurance for the children, even if the mother also has secondary insurance. Make sure you mention that she has had them on a good plan for years and has specifically said she did not want to put them on your insurance, or you could end up having to pay for a policy they don't even use.

2.) Tax deductions - It's very common for the person paying child support to be given the right to claim the kids as dependents, even if they don't live with you. Deducting two additional kids will save you tons of money on your yearly taxes.

3.) Visitation - If an official order is going in, he will have increased rights to get to see the girls. In cases where the parents are so far apart, having them live with you all summer is not uncommon. If you can't afford for them to live with you for that long, you can use "giving that time up" as a bargaining chip to basically get to pick and choose when you do get to see them, on your schedule.

4.) Visitation costs/driving - Usually travel costs will be split if you bring it up (i.e., she'd have to pay for half of that rental car next time, or possibly even drive them to you herself half the time.) If you don't ask for a ruling, it will default to you as the non-custodial parent.

5.) Make sure the child support terminates when each child turns 18, and not when they get out of college. The latter is being worked in to more and more child support orders these days, and doesn't even allow you to give the money straight to the kid now that they're an adult, it still goes to the custodial parent.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:21 PM   #10
OnyxCougar
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Those are great points that I had thought of (briefly) and then forgotten about.

The insurance thing isn't a deal, in fact, I think Husband has added them on today. Since he's already on the family plan (which is a set amount regardless of how many kids you put on it) it doesn't cost us anything more to add the girls.

And you bet your behind we're getting visitation, and she'll pay half. (We'll come pick them up, she can come take them home.) And we're only paying until they are 18, after that, we'll help them directly with school, etc.

At least, that's our hope at this point.
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Old 12-26-2004, 02:52 AM   #11
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I feel your pain, OC.

A fair way to handle a situation like this would be if the court would decide on a legitimate amount to provide for the children's welfare, and barring any extreme circumstances like abuse or neglect, custody will be be decided by coin flip, loser pays support and get the other parent gets custody.

I have a feeling a lot more of these cases would never happen.

Or you could just find a couple of local crackheads to go over and *discuss* it with them. If you haven't seen it, go rent Hitchcock's "Strangers on a Train". Criss-cross!

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Old 12-26-2004, 10:00 AM   #12
OnyxCougar
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LOL Thanks for the offer, NBN, and believe me, the thought has crossed my mind.

Unfortunetly, other than being dishonest and a manipulative Bitch, she treats the children well, and no court in the world would give us custody over her (since she doesn't mistreat them).

So it's in the courts hands. All we can do is prove he's been paying her in good faith, and keep putting the money in an account every month until this gets settled.

I can't wait for her to have the nerve to ask where her money is. *muhaha* We're not telling her what we're doing (with the children's account) until she asks. *evil grin*

I wish I could see the look on her face......
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Old 12-26-2004, 06:38 PM   #13
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Wow, OC, I completely understand this situation, because it is nearly identicle to mine. My bf is dealing with a psycho ex, as well, and we all feel the pain of her episodes of benign, self-righteous, bubble-headed tyrany. She basically takes the kids right off, manipulates and intimidates to get what she wants and calls it generous. Now, she wants to move to Texas (20 hours away) to marry some guy she met this summer and take bf's 2 kids with her. She even has the nerve to tell my bf that he can only have the kids for 1 1/2 months during the summer. She has no real justification (unless you count "I want the kids to grow up in the 'truth'" a real justification). He plans to object to the uprooting of his children from their home to go live with someone they don't know and no family in sight. She can't just take them, can she? I believe she has done all this to try and squeeze as much money out of him as she can. The first thing she did when they split up was quit her good paying job and enroll in school so the CS formula would show that she needed more money for the kids. However, she moved the kids and herself to another town without bf's agreement. In Texas she hopes to "be a full-time mom" with the new sap's 3 kids and bf's 2. (I always hate that term, because it implies that those of us who work are not moms all the time.) Sorry to get off the subject, but I am glad this topic came up. OC, don't despair. The entire world (although it seems so) does not believe that all single mothers are martyrs to be pitied and awarded charity. Some of them choose the victim role and abuse the system to get vengeance.
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:15 AM   #14
OnyxCougar
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Well, with your story, Case, I can be happy Bitch isn't quite like that, although just because she isn't doing that at the moment doesn't mean WON'T. I've been reading NC law, and it seems that if either parent voluntarily stops working (or gets themselves fired) NC will calculate on what you WERE making, and ignore that you don't have income now. Husband has already put Bitch through school, so she's a Nuclear Tech and making nearly $12 an hour (which is damn good money for where I am, but she's in GA, so I dunno.)

My happiest moment so far is that they won't count MY income even though Husband and I are married.

Oh, and as a side note, Christmas day I went out to the car, to get my phone (which I had stupidly left) and someone threw a rock at my driver's side window. It's completely shattered. $200 to fix that now.

*sigh*
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:56 AM   #15
perth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by case
She can't just take them, can she?
No. Remember that was one of our orders? Neither of us can take Jamey out-of-state without written consent from the other parent. That wasn't an agreement we made, that was law (Again, Colorado law).

OC, that sucks. The child support, the car window, all of it. I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts (for whatever thats worth ). It seems like crises get much worse around the holidays, I've had my own stack of problem after problem lately, and I really do sympathise. But I think I've got this part down pat now: Take care of yourself and your family, it'll work out somehow.
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