12/22/2002: Word usage maps

Undertoad · 12-22-2002, 11:00 AM

Not as interesting to non US people... or maybe it is?

Many moons ago the IotD featured the Soda vs Pop vs Coke web site, which graphed people's voluntary answers to that etymological question. Harvard has taken this a step further and asked about other words and pronunciations.

In particular I love the HOAGIE result: all of Pennsylvania agrees that the sandwich is not a sub after all. Although we do still have Subways here, and we understand what they're supposed to be, and sometimes we eat them, for the most part we're ordering HOAGIES made by independent sandwich builders. It was, after all, invented on Hog Island for a hearty meal for the working class workers there. And nothing you can tell me will convince me otherwise. I guess.

Discovered by Sycamore... a tip o the hat to the gent.

MaggieL · 12-22-2002, 11:39 AM

The real maps are here:

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/maps.php

The survey that generated them:

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/

We only need to discover why "Hog Island" generated a sandwich called "hoagie" pronounced "hoe-ggie" as opposed to "hah-geie"

elSicomoro · 12-22-2002, 01:36 PM

Well UT, it was your computer...

Look at those maps on the study site...much more detailed, like the first soda-pop map we had on IotD.

Undertoad · 12-22-2002, 01:37 PM

Awesome!

I had no idea that "mischief night" as the night before Halloween was a local thing. (question 110) It looks like Philly/NYC only, except that in Michigan they call it "devil's night". Wow.

And question 117, "cellar" as a term loosely meaning "basement" is mostly from the northeast. I did not know that.

elSicomoro · 12-22-2002, 01:41 PM

The word has lost some usage, but in St. Louis, the term "poor boy" is still well-used for a sub-style sandwich.

wolf · 12-22-2002, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
I had no idea that "mischief night" as the night before Halloween was a local thing. (question 110) It looks like Philly/NYC only, except that in Michigan they call it "devil's night". Wow.

The difference between mischief night and devil's night is the difference between toilet papering a house and burning it down.

wolf · 12-22-2002, 02:14 PM

Great data!

I have attempted on more than one occasion to explain to my boyfriend and others the similarities and differences among hoagies, subs, grinders, Norristown zeps and sandwiches, and the overall superiority of the hoagie.

I still haven't convinced them of the reality of tomato pie.

sleemanj · 12-22-2002, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad

Not as interesting to non US people... or maybe it is?

Being non-yank myself, I'll say it's reasonably interesting, we often think of language differences as being a country thing I guess, probably because NZ isn't big enough to get any serious language differences (besides a couple, like Bach ((pronounced batch) South Islander's term for a holiday home) vs Crib (that's what they call the same thing in the North Island)).

Maori pronounciation is also slightly different depending on whether you are SI maori or NI maori (I'm not maori at all however), but it's been waay too long since Maori language class at school for me to remember what the differences are.

As for the words in the image, around here those would be (in order)...
Soft Drink
err, Filled Roll maybe
llama (pa-jar-mas)
car-a-mel (I can't imagine pronouncing that any different ??)
I think this would be gym shoes

oh and it's AL-YOU-MIN-E-UM not A-LOO-MIN-UM !!

sleemanj · 12-22-2002, 04:13 PM

Just went and had a look at the results, some of those questions are pretty wierd, like this one...

56. Pantyhose are so expensive anymore that I just try to get a good suntan and forget about it.
a. acceptable (27.93%)
b. unacceptable (68.49%)
c. not sure (3.57%)
(8338 respondents)

What's that about ? I don't get it, are Pantyhose something different depending on where you are ? To me they are those things that you (well women, mostly) wear over thier legs.

wolf · 12-22-2002, 04:36 PM

Panyhose are equally vile no matter where you are. :P

I can't stand 'em and go to great lengths to make wardrobe choices that don't require them.

High heels too ... I don't have any desire to break my ankle. (twisted one once, falling off a pair of Candies)

Gimme a pair of boots or sneakers anyday ...

verbatim · 12-22-2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
I had no idea that "mischief night" as the night before Halloween was a local thing. (question 110) It looks like Philly/NYC only, except that in Michigan they call it "devil's night". Wow.

Harrisburg too.

Welcome to Pittsburgh, where yins can warsh yer hands in the crick (creek) and then go to the has (house) and eat some dinna.

Tobiasly · 12-22-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sleemanj
What's that about ? I don't get it, are Pantyhose something different depending on where you are ?

I think it may be whether you consider "pantyhose" singular or plural ("pantyhose are" vs. "pantyhose is")

Tobiasly · 12-22-2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sleemanj
car-a-mel (I can't imagine pronouncing that any different ??)

Yeah, I was surprised that wasn't one of the choices. I've heard care-a-mel and car-ml before, but I always use car-a-mel.

wolf · 12-22-2002, 09:37 PM

it's not the grammatical thing. It is about the acceptability/unacceptability of a woman dressed in a skirt not to wear pantyhose. Nice girls wear pantyhose. Naughty girls don't.

(I didn't look at the responses, but I'd guess that it's an "unacceptable" statement in most of the South.)

elSicomoro · 12-22-2002, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
it's not the grammatical thing. It is about the acceptability/unacceptability of a woman dressed in a skirt not to wear pantyhose. Nice girls wear pantyhose. Naughty girls don't.

You know, if I see a woman that wears pantyhose, tights, or stockings...that's more of a turn-on to me than bare legs, depending on the situation.

It's probably just me.

12-22-2002, 11:00 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	12/22/2002: Word usage maps Not as interesting to non US people... or maybe it is? Many moons ago the IotD featured the Soda vs Pop vs Coke web site, which graphed people's voluntary answers to that etymological question. Harvard has taken this a step further and asked about other words and pronunciations. In particular I love the HOAGIE result: all of Pennsylvania agrees that the sandwich is not a sub after all. Although we do still have Subways here, and we understand what they're supposed to be, and sometimes we eat them, for the most part we're ordering HOAGIES made by independent sandwich builders. It was, after all, invented on Hog Island for a hearty meal for the working class workers there. And nothing you can tell me will convince me otherwise. I guess. Discovered by Sycamore... a tip o the hat to the gent.

12-22-2002, 11:39 AM	#2
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	The real maps are here: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/maps.php The survey that generated them: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect/ We only need to discover why "Hog Island" generated a sandwich called "hoagie" pronounced "hoe-ggie" as opposed to "hah-geie" __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

12-22-2002, 02:14 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Great data! I have attempted on more than one occasion to explain to my boyfriend and others the similarities and differences among hoagies, subs, grinders, Norristown zeps and sandwiches, and the overall superiority of the hoagie. I still haven't convinced them of the reality of tomato pie. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-22-2002, 04:13 PM	#9
sleemanj Infamous Defamer Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 50	Re: 12/22/2002: Word usage maps Just went and had a look at the results, some of those questions are pretty wierd, like this one... 56. Pantyhose are so expensive anymore that I just try to get a good suntan and forget about it. a. acceptable (27.93%) b. unacceptable (68.49%) c. not sure (3.57%) (8338 respondents) What's that about ? I don't get it, are Pantyhose something different depending on where you are ? To me they are those things that you (well women, mostly) wear over thier legs.

12-22-2002, 04:36 PM	#10
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Panyhose are equally vile no matter where you are. :P I can't stand 'em and go to great lengths to make wardrobe choices that don't require them. High heels too ... I don't have any desire to break my ankle. (twisted one once, falling off a pair of Candies) Gimme a pair of boots or sneakers anyday ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-22-2002, 01:36 PM	#3
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Well UT, it was your computer... Look at those maps on the study site...much more detailed, like the first soda-pop map we had on IotD.

12-22-2002, 01:37 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Awesome! I had no idea that "mischief night" as the night before Halloween was a local thing. (question 110) It looks like Philly/NYC only, except that in Michigan they call it "devil's night". Wow. And question 117, "cellar" as a term loosely meaning "basement" is mostly from the northeast. I did not know that.

12-22-2002, 01:41 PM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The word has lost some usage, but in St. Louis, the term "poor boy" is still well-used for a sub-style sandwich.

12-22-2002, 09:37 PM	#14
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	it's not the grammatical thing. It is about the acceptability/unacceptability of a woman dressed in a skirt not to wear pantyhose. Nice girls wear pantyhose. Naughty girls don't. (I didn't look at the responses, but I'd guess that it's an "unacceptable" statement in most of the South.) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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