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Old 06-22-2016, 11:52 AM   #31
DanaC
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There'd an element of that to British society as well UT. Some of the biggest voices against the current immigrants are the children and grandchildren of yesterday's immigrants. Complaining about immigration is practically a national characteristic.
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:34 PM   #32
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But they were mostly immigrants from the empire. They had already been schooled to accept British superiority and prepared to adjust their lives to the British norm as best they could. They were not coming in demanding the locals bend to their culture, adjust to their aspirations, accept them on their terms.
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:54 PM   #33
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Not one major business group or financial organization approves of Brexit. If facts are that overwhelming, then why do so many want Brexit? A perfect example. Many adults still think like children (for the same reason so many also knew Saddam had WMDs). If thinking logically, then Brexit is clearly undesirable.

Why do so many want Brexit? Because brainwashing works on those who make decisions based only using emotions. Those are adults who still think like children.

Again, not one valid fact justifies or says Brexit is desirable or good. Virtually every major business and finance organization says Brexit is bad. How many bothered to even learn that fact before making a conclusion?

That is a difference between a moderate and an extremist (active or potential). Moderates learn facts with numbers before making a conclusion. Extremists entertain their emotions - somehow know immediately what to believe. Brexit demonstrates how many adults are still children.
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:56 PM   #34
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Not one major business group or financial organization approves
And if we know anything, we know those folks can absolutely be trusted and want only what is best for all.

(he said half joking)
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Old 06-22-2016, 05:58 PM   #35
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Business groups and financial organizations are usually run by top management...
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:04 PM   #36
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
Business groups and financial organizations are usually run by top management...
Some top management is extremely patriotic. They innovate. They empower their workers. Their desire for better products is, for example, why the American economy is so robust and still #1. Those should not be confused with people such as Donald Trump, Rick Wagoner, Carly Fiorina, Dick Cheney, Martin Shkreli, or George Jr whose only interests were self servicing and classic anti-humaity and anti-American. Whose actions did so much harm to America.

And still, not one honest and comprehensive fact (with perspective) recommends Brexit. Vote should be that one sided if enough adults are adult.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:39 PM   #37
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Brexit: capable of turning usually humorful and interesting facebook friends into utter wankers.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:46 PM   #38
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To my colonial eye, Brexit is not about business. It is about nationalism vs globalism. The EU is a dictatorship, pure and simple. I admit, I have my hands full following our own troubles and have not spared much time for our UK allies' troubles, yet I do kind of read things. Like this article, by a British citizen who is in a better position to know what is happening there. I believe him, and Boris Johnson, former mayor of London. I have listened to Boris make his case and I think he is right. Leave the EU and let it fall apart. The UK is not the only country that is getting tired of being dictated to by Brussels. Germany and France, among others, are about ready to leave and are probably only waiting to see what happens to the UK first. If the sky doesn't fall in on the Brits, they will likely follow soon after.

In my humble opinion, anything that monkey wrenches globalism is a good thing.
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Old 06-23-2016, 03:06 AM   #39
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That makes it sound like they're an external power dictating to us. We are part of that power. Brussels is us and we are Brussels.

Of all the EU nations we have less to gripe about in terms of dictatorship than any. We have negotiated so many opt outs, the rest of the EU has bent over backwards to accommodate Britain's individualism. We are not even a member of the eurozone - we kept our own currency.

As for globalisation - Boris is a neo-con. He wants to free up the British elite to be part of a whole different kind of globalisation. Free from EU and its insistence that things like bankers' bonuses should have some sort of limit or that workers' rights should have some sort of protection.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:37 PM   #40
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looks like exit at this hour, exit leading by 750k votes
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:31 AM   #41
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Free Scotland in 5 4 3...
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:00 AM   #42
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The Markets don't like the Brexit
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:00 AM   #43
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Analysis of the vote says much about why that decision was made. For example, N Ireland and Scotland clearly did not want Brexit. The young clearly did not want Brexit. A vast majority who voted for it were older, white, less educated, and predominately from the midlands. These people have two gripes: income and immigration.

Brexit is about business and the many other economic and social aspects possible or improved because of business.

Their first complaint is accurate. Incomes have been stagnant. Innovation is the only source of increasing incomes. Britain (like the US) has seen diminishing innovation as more are educated in business rather than in productive disciplines. Voters did not blame the reason or resulting symptoms for stagnant incomes. That required learning facts while ignoring subjective soundbytes. Extremists successfully promoted a 'blame them others' mentality. EU was easy to blame using myths and outright lies such as globalization, people with accents, and European dictatorship. Especially since most Britains could not even name who they elected to Brussels. Extremists survive on myths that promote misdirected hate and fear.

Immigrants are numerous in a nation called New York State. Does NY get upset because so many valley girls from California now live there? Of course not. New Yorkers are not that dumb. Immigrants from other states are essential to growth and wealth of a union, nation, or state. Extremists successfully promoted hate of 'them' to a white, mostly blue collar Britain. Successfully blamed stagnant incomes on what is really a significant reason why their incomes have not dropped - immigrants and foreigners.

Soundbytes are easier to promote than reality. So as one said, "Nobody has withdrawn from the EU. So let's give it a go." Reasoning not based in educated or logical thought. But inspired by blaming others combined with emotion and rhetoric.

British pound has already fallen to lowest levels in 30 years. That will increase cost of living. Brexit supporters will not notice how much damage they have done because significant damage will appear in two and six years from now. We know this will create conflict and stress in culture, employment, trade, and national defense. Virtually every person educated in these various aspects have said so. It is that obvious. The emotional educated by soundbytes tend to forget events even six months ago. So they will not blame themselves.

Questions: should Scotland and N Ireland withdrawal from the UK. No longer any reason for not doing so. Since extremists say this is good; Scotland might. N Ireland probably will not reunite with Ireland. But they should consider it.

Britain may have started a process to become a second class nation. Will not be apparent this year. Because we know a nation's fabric is measured by its product. What is done productively today does not appear in standards of living for typically four or ten years. In twenty years, damage done by so many easily manipulated by extremists rhetoric will become apparent. Destructive Britains will blame other (simplistic) factors rather than the reason why all those degrading factors exist.

Britain's vote is praised by who? Right wing extremists in Denmark, Netherlands, Italy, and France. Extremists (ie Milosevic, bin Laden, Mugabee, and Hitler) need disunity and hate to obtain power. That should have had attention of so many who, instead, voted to do damage. That means learning what makes a productive and safer country.

US works because states, for example, do not stupidly call for NYexit. Now we learn how much damage is created by extremist rhetoric. We know it will be destructive. Only question is by how much. Scotland should withdrawal from a nation that no longer understands a well proven expression, "United we stand; divided we fall."

No surprise. Donald Trump loves Brexit. Resulting hate, pain, problems, and disunity promote extremists (and egotists) who crave power. Only extremists want that and everything else associated with that hate, dictatorship, concentration of wealth and what extremists most love - war.

Who wanted to advance the UK? The young. Scotland and Ireland. Londoners. Who blamed others because extremists (ie Boris Johnson) so easily manipulated them using half truths, intentional lies, and emotion?
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:31 AM   #44
Undertoad
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Perhaps the masses will learn to vote correctly if the people who are better than them, insult them even harder.


...or will the "betters" will learn that insulting the masses has the opposite of the intended effect.

Trump 2016. Because fuck you.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:12 PM   #45
Happy Monkey
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Voters learn that voting matters.

I wonder if, now that reality is setting in, politicians could win the next election by promising to cancel the Brexit.
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