Long distance relationship issues

Antimatter · 03-30-2011, 08:46 PM

I would like some opinions and advice on the ethics and other aspects of some recent developments in my relationship. It pertains at least in part to human sexuality, and although I'm striving to maintain a sober tone I would advice that if the concept of sex offends you it is probably best to stop reading here.

First some background. The first time I met my girlfriend was about three years ago. She was visiting Copenhagen, where I live, and stayed on my couch a few days (ever heard of couchsurfing? If not, look it up). Nothing indicating romantic or sexual interest happened at that time, but we were talking really well with each other and thus stayed in touch as friends online after she returned to Italy where she's from.

Time passed, and through email and chats we got to know each other better. At some point what I perceived to be hints of a mutual romantic interest started entering into our communications, but nothing direct or explicit. Also, I knew I would be interested if she didn't live 1500 kilometers away, but at the same time the distance seemed prohibitive. Anyway, sometimes during autumn she asked if I had plans for new years. My first thought was that maybe that was meant as an invitation, but I had already invited a few friends over, so I told her that, and as an afterthought I half-jokingly invited her to join us, and she accepted my invitation. Nothing happened on new years eve, but a couple of days into January we ended up making out, and when she returned to Italy I had already promised to come visit her as soon as possible. I went only a couple of weeks later, and for the next few months we were together as often as possible, but the distance, responsibilities at work and her catholic parents with whom she was still living didn't make things easier, and coupled with doubts and uncertainty about the future this all became too much for me, so just before I was going to visit her over Easter I broke up with her. Over Skype. No, not the most gentlemanly way to do it, but in the end that was our primary means of communication for 80-90% of the time.

Fast forward a bit over a year. We were still friends online, but hadn't seen each other since the break up. I was in a non-committed, strictly physical relationship, she'd had an interest in a couple of different guys but nothing serious had come of this, and one of them had hurt her pretty badly when she found out that he was actually seeing at least three other women on a carefully crafted schedule, none of whom knew anything about each other until they all accidentally learned about each other. Anyway, she'd decided to quit her job in Italy and move to Berlin, which is much closer to Copenhagen even if it's still some distance away. Around the same time we started talking about seeing each other again, as friends, so last summer I went to visit her in Italy before she moved to Berlin.

Seeing each other again was good, and it became clear that we were still attracted to each other. I began seriously questioning whether the decision to break up with her more than a year earlier had been sound, and on the last night of my visit we ended up making out on a sofa after her parents had gone to sleep. We didn't commit to anything, but I invited myself to visit her in Berlin after she'd moved, and shortly after that she invited herself to come visit me in Copenhagen, a trip she actually made even before I made the Berlin trip.

It took some time before we agreed to define ourselves as a couple again - I was quite certain in my desire, but I also knew that she'd been burned by me leaving her before, and as such I knew I should give her the time she needed to rebuilt her trust in me. The turning point came around Christmas when she started referring to me as her boyfriend again.

Then, in February, I was leaving for a 3½ week holiday in Thailand. The weekend before leaving I was visiting her in Berlin, and on my last day there she told me that she needed time to think. She made it clear that she wasn't breaking up, at least not then and there, but I must admit I was a bit dumbfounded by this sudden change of course - after all, we'd only just recently started defining as a couple again, and I'd been doing my best to be a good boyfriend all along. We were still communicating frequently while I were in Thailand, and after I returned home we made plans for me to visit her again in Berlin, this time for almost a week, a trip I returned from a few days ago.

Our almost-week together was something of a roller coaster ride. The first night I managed to piss her off enough that the next couple of days (and nights) were not at all pleasant, something that only changed when I told her that we should either work with our baggage or call it off and break up again. She replied that she couldn't see how, so if that was how I saw it let's just end it here. I went to pack my bag and then she broke down and said she didn't want me to leave after all, and after half an hour of talking with our heads under a duvet we decided to try and find a way to make it work.

One of her main problems with the status quo had been not having anybody around at night when we weren't together. She suggested trying an open relationship, something that I in principle approve of in cases where both parties are comfortable with it, but not something I would rush into, so I promised to give it some thought. The next couple of days were much more enjoyable, and we got some other issues sorted out, or at least started on it. Then, the day before I left for home we were looking for her ID card which she needed for some paperwork at a municipal office, and I happened upon a pack of condoms in a drawer. Now, I hate to jump to conclusions, but until that point this was something I had always provided (I have special needs in that department and thus buy mine at a specialty store). Anyway, I didn't actually think much of it at first, but later, when we were getting a bit frisky at bedtime, it nagged me enough that I knew I had to get it out of my head, so I asked her to slow down and carefully phrased the question, making sure to tell her first that I knew there could be a perfectly good explanation and that I didn't mean to accuse her of anything. She told me she'd bought them shortly after moving to Berlin, before we got back together. And then a few seconds later that unrelated to the acquisition of the pack of condoms she'd been physically intimate with somebody while we were on a break, something I actually had to ask her to define more clearly - in my memory the word "break" wasn't used when she told me she needed some time to think, so I wanted to make sure that was what she meant. It was. She also told me that she didn't have any contact with the guy any more, and firmly maintained that what she'd done wasn't cheating since we were on a break when it happened.

This information completely killed my mood, and I didn't get much sleep that night as I was pondering whether this was something that I could live with. My mood wasn't much better next morning, but at some point I decided not to let it interfere with our last few hours together before I left for home. I felt cheated on, and I suspected that she may have retroactively redefined "thinking" as "being on a break", but at the same time I wasn't 100% sure that she didn't use those words back in early February, and I don't delude myself into thinking that my view of the situation was at all objective or that I have perfect memory. Anyway, some morning loving made me feel slightly less bad about the situation (it was a relief to find that we could still function physically together, something that I had doubted the night before).

Actually typing all this have probably in itself made a few things clearer for me, but there for two reasons I'm not really satisfied with her explanation.

1. In my mind it was implied, if not explicitly expressed, that we were still a couple and as such still exclusive when she told me that she needed time to think. I have a nagging suspicion that she has retroactively changed her stance, whether before or after being with another guy.

2. Even if #1 is not the case, in my book when you call a timeout you're still on your best behavior, as in case you later decide to get back together any intimacy you've shared with other parties has the potential to cause further trouble in a relationship that is obviously already not working ideally (or you wouldn't need to take time to think about it).

At the same time, there's also still the question of whether an open relationship is a good option for us. I can certainly see that it would be convenient for both of us to be able to seek other company on those otherwise lonely nights when we're apart, but I don't like that this suggestion comes from her after she's been messing around with somebody else but before telling me about it. And even if I'm able to deal with it (which I'm still not 100% sure I am) I fear that she might be less well prepared to handle the thought of me being physically intimate with another woman. One reason is that shortly after bringing it up she stated that her terms were "You can do whatever you want with whoever you want, but I don't want to know anything about it" which suggests to me that she's not emotionally ready to handle it. Not that I would expect us to share all the intimate details of our extracurricular activities, but not wanting to know anything sounds dangerously close to being in denial about the openness also applying to the other party.

She's a very special person to me, and I believe that the fact that we got back together after more than a year and in spite of the still-long-enough-to-be-inconvenient distance means that we're in some way meant to be. I'm beginning to have my doubts, though.

Any thoughts? Advice? What would you do if you were in my shoes?

morethanpretty · 03-30-2011, 10:30 PM

Unfortunately, one of the most important things to a successful relationship is proximity. If y'all really really want it to work long term, on of y'all is going to have to move. Are you willing to take that risk? If not...can you truly expect her to? There are already trust and confidence issues.
I would say move on.

Antimatter · 03-31-2011, 02:10 AM

Ah, I should have said something about that. I'm open to the idea of moving to wherever, and Berlin is close enough to Copenhagen that I could still see friends and family often enough to make maintaining those ties a non-issue. However, I'm tied to here for the next few months so it won't be until sometimes in the autumn at the earliest. In my mind that is really not a long time off, though.

infinite monkey · 03-31-2011, 07:20 AM

Long distance relationship are teh difficult. Sometimes it seems too difficult.

Antimatter · 03-31-2011, 08:13 AM

It's not so much the distance that bothers me. I would of course rather be closer to her geographically, but I can be that from sometimes in the autumn or winter, which is not really a long time off in my book. I know it bothers her, though, and I know she's not as patient as I am. What bothers me I guess could be said is her way of dealing with the distance, except I'm not really sure that distance is the only thing bothering her.

infinite monkey · 03-31-2011, 08:18 AM

If there are ANY opportunities for visits, I'm sure it makes a difference. That hasn't been feasible for me and my situation. One visit in two years. Sigh...

Antimatter · 03-31-2011, 08:44 AM

Plenty of opportunities for visits. We generally see each other at least one weekend in four, the exception being when I was in Thailand and we didn't see each other for 5½ weeks. And twice since we got back together we've spent about a week together. Two years sounds almost impossibly tough, and that would definitely be too much for me.

skysidhe · 03-31-2011, 08:48 AM

I suppose it makes a difference if you see an 'open relationship' as a compromise.
If an open relationship isn't more than a concession, then no.

If you are harboring doubts now do you see yourself feeling fine about it later?

Antimatter · 03-31-2011, 09:47 AM

Thanks, skysidhe, I think you just hit one of the nails right on the head.

My doubts are mostly about her ability to handle the thought of me seeing other women. I'm not really the jealous type myself, except when I feel somebody goes behind my back, which is how I feel about her little adventure while I was in Thailand. And even then it's not that bad, actually, although I would obviously have been happier had it not happened.

In the end I'm not sure if accepting her suggestion would be a compromise or a concession on my part. I guess that's part of what I'm trying to make up my mind about by soliciting your views on the situation.

TheMercenary · 03-31-2011, 10:23 AM

I have rarely ever seen a long distance relationship last. I would drop her and move on for something more obtainable and in close proximity.

Big Sarge · 04-02-2011, 02:34 AM

i was hurt terribly during a long distance relationship. i still haven't recovered and it has been 2 years, 4 months, and 16 days. but who's counting. lol. they don't work

morethanpretty · 04-02-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antimatter

Thanks, skysidhe, I think you just hit one of the nails right on the head.

My doubts are mostly about her ability to handle the thought of me seeing other women. I'm not really the jealous type myself, except when I feel somebody goes behind my back, which is how I feel about her little adventure while I was in Thailand. And even then it's not that bad, actually, although I would obviously have been happier had it not happened.

In the end I'm not sure if accepting her suggestion would be a compromise or a concession on my part. I guess that's part of what I'm trying to make up my mind about by soliciting your views on the situation.

My rule: either both get to be slutting it up without repercussion from the other party, or neither of you do.

footfootfoot · 04-02-2011, 04:44 PM

familiarity breeds contempt
absence makes the heart grow fonder
out of sight out if mind

Antimatter · 04-03-2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

My rule: either both get to be slutting it up without repercussion from the other party, or neither of you do.

I totally agree with this. A few days of thinking has also convinced me that in this case there are too many things already muddying the waters, and we don't need one more right now. So an open relationship is not going to happen at this time.

She made some inquiries a couple of days ago that indicates that she's toying with the idea of moving here. That would clear up a lot of things, so I'm hoping the whole long distance thing will be over with sooner than I first thought possible.

Regarding the notion that long distance relationships never or rarely work, and that sooner or later they end, the same thing could be said for all my previous relationships. I won't even be surprised if this one doesn't last till death do us part, but I'm not done with it yet and I still think that the beautiful things we share outweigh the issues we have to deal with.

infinite monkey · 04-04-2011, 03:25 PM

I like the people who think they're fucking from halfway across the planet. That is admirable.

03-30-2011, 10:30 PM	#2
morethanpretty Thats "Miss Zipper Neck" to you. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: little town (but not the littlest) in texas Posts: 2,957	Unfortunately, one of the most important things to a successful relationship is proximity. If y'all really really want it to work long term, on of y'all is going to have to move. Are you willing to take that risk? If not...can you truly expect her to? There are already trust and confidence issues. I would say move on. __________________ Addicts may suck dick for coke, but love came up with the idea to put a dick in there to begin with. -Jack O'Brien

03-31-2011, 10:23 AM	#10
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I have rarely ever seen a long distance relationship last. I would drop her and move on for something more obtainable and in close proximity. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

04-02-2011, 02:34 AM	#11
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	i was hurt terribly during a long distance relationship. i still haven't recovered and it has been 2 years, 4 months, and 16 days. but who's counting. lol. they don't work __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

04-02-2011, 04:44 PM	#13
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	familiarity breeds contempt absence makes the heart grow fonder out of sight out if mind __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

03-30-2011, 08:46 PM	#1
Antimatter Belt Conveyor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 68	Long distance relationship issues I would like some opinions and advice on the ethics and other aspects of some recent developments in my relationship. It pertains at least in part to human sexuality, and although I'm striving to maintain a sober tone I would advice that if the concept of sex offends you it is probably best to stop reading here. First some background. The first time I met my girlfriend was about three years ago. She was visiting Copenhagen, where I live, and stayed on my couch a few days (ever heard of couchsurfing? If not, look it up). Nothing indicating romantic or sexual interest happened at that time, but we were talking really well with each other and thus stayed in touch as friends online after she returned to Italy where she's from. Time passed, and through email and chats we got to know each other better. At some point what I perceived to be hints of a mutual romantic interest started entering into our communications, but nothing direct or explicit. Also, I knew I would be interested if she didn't live 1500 kilometers away, but at the same time the distance seemed prohibitive. Anyway, sometimes during autumn she asked if I had plans for new years. My first thought was that maybe that was meant as an invitation, but I had already invited a few friends over, so I told her that, and as an afterthought I half-jokingly invited her to join us, and she accepted my invitation. Nothing happened on new years eve, but a couple of days into January we ended up making out, and when she returned to Italy I had already promised to come visit her as soon as possible. I went only a couple of weeks later, and for the next few months we were together as often as possible, but the distance, responsibilities at work and her catholic parents with whom she was still living didn't make things easier, and coupled with doubts and uncertainty about the future this all became too much for me, so just before I was going to visit her over Easter I broke up with her. Over Skype. No, not the most gentlemanly way to do it, but in the end that was our primary means of communication for 80-90% of the time. Fast forward a bit over a year. We were still friends online, but hadn't seen each other since the break up. I was in a non-committed, strictly physical relationship, she'd had an interest in a couple of different guys but nothing serious had come of this, and one of them had hurt her pretty badly when she found out that he was actually seeing at least three other women on a carefully crafted schedule, none of whom knew anything about each other until they all accidentally learned about each other. Anyway, she'd decided to quit her job in Italy and move to Berlin, which is much closer to Copenhagen even if it's still some distance away. Around the same time we started talking about seeing each other again, as friends, so last summer I went to visit her in Italy before she moved to Berlin. Seeing each other again was good, and it became clear that we were still attracted to each other. I began seriously questioning whether the decision to break up with her more than a year earlier had been sound, and on the last night of my visit we ended up making out on a sofa after her parents had gone to sleep. We didn't commit to anything, but I invited myself to visit her in Berlin after she'd moved, and shortly after that she invited herself to come visit me in Copenhagen, a trip she actually made even before I made the Berlin trip. It took some time before we agreed to define ourselves as a couple again - I was quite certain in my desire, but I also knew that she'd been burned by me leaving her before, and as such I knew I should give her the time she needed to rebuilt her trust in me. The turning point came around Christmas when she started referring to me as her boyfriend again. Then, in February, I was leaving for a 3½ week holiday in Thailand. The weekend before leaving I was visiting her in Berlin, and on my last day there she told me that she needed time to think. She made it clear that she wasn't breaking up, at least not then and there, but I must admit I was a bit dumbfounded by this sudden change of course - after all, we'd only just recently started defining as a couple again, and I'd been doing my best to be a good boyfriend all along. We were still communicating frequently while I were in Thailand, and after I returned home we made plans for me to visit her again in Berlin, this time for almost a week, a trip I returned from a few days ago. Our almost-week together was something of a roller coaster ride. The first night I managed to piss her off enough that the next couple of days (and nights) were not at all pleasant, something that only changed when I told her that we should either work with our baggage or call it off and break up again. She replied that she couldn't see how, so if that was how I saw it let's just end it here. I went to pack my bag and then she broke down and said she didn't want me to leave after all, and after half an hour of talking with our heads under a duvet we decided to try and find a way to make it work. One of her main problems with the status quo had been not having anybody around at night when we weren't together. She suggested trying an open relationship, something that I in principle approve of in cases where both parties are comfortable with it, but not something I would rush into, so I promised to give it some thought. The next couple of days were much more enjoyable, and we got some other issues sorted out, or at least started on it. Then, the day before I left for home we were looking for her ID card which she needed for some paperwork at a municipal office, and I happened upon a pack of condoms in a drawer. Now, I hate to jump to conclusions, but until that point this was something I had always provided (I have special needs in that department and thus buy mine at a specialty store). Anyway, I didn't actually think much of it at first, but later, when we were getting a bit frisky at bedtime, it nagged me enough that I knew I had to get it out of my head, so I asked her to slow down and carefully phrased the question, making sure to tell her first that I knew there could be a perfectly good explanation and that I didn't mean to accuse her of anything. She told me she'd bought them shortly after moving to Berlin, before we got back together. And then a few seconds later that unrelated to the acquisition of the pack of condoms she'd been physically intimate with somebody while we were on a break, something I actually had to ask her to define more clearly - in my memory the word "break" wasn't used when she told me she needed some time to think, so I wanted to make sure that was what she meant. It was. She also told me that she didn't have any contact with the guy any more, and firmly maintained that what she'd done wasn't cheating since we were on a break when it happened. This information completely killed my mood, and I didn't get much sleep that night as I was pondering whether this was something that I could live with. My mood wasn't much better next morning, but at some point I decided not to let it interfere with our last few hours together before I left for home. I felt cheated on, and I suspected that she may have retroactively redefined "thinking" as "being on a break", but at the same time I wasn't 100% sure that she didn't use those words back in early February, and I don't delude myself into thinking that my view of the situation was at all objective or that I have perfect memory. Anyway, some morning loving made me feel slightly less bad about the situation (it was a relief to find that we could still function physically together, something that I had doubted the night before). Actually typing all this have probably in itself made a few things clearer for me, but there for two reasons I'm not really satisfied with her explanation. 1. In my mind it was implied, if not explicitly expressed, that we were still a couple and as such still exclusive when she told me that she needed time to think. I have a nagging suspicion that she has retroactively changed her stance, whether before or after being with another guy. 2. Even if #1 is not the case, in my book when you call a timeout you're still on your best behavior, as in case you later decide to get back together any intimacy you've shared with other parties has the potential to cause further trouble in a relationship that is obviously already not working ideally (or you wouldn't need to take time to think about it). At the same time, there's also still the question of whether an open relationship is a good option for us. I can certainly see that it would be convenient for both of us to be able to seek other company on those otherwise lonely nights when we're apart, but I don't like that this suggestion comes from her after she's been messing around with somebody else but before telling me about it. And even if I'm able to deal with it (which I'm still not 100% sure I am) I fear that she might be less well prepared to handle the thought of me being physically intimate with another woman. One reason is that shortly after bringing it up she stated that her terms were "You can do whatever you want with whoever you want, but I don't want to know anything about it" which suggests to me that she's not emotionally ready to handle it. Not that I would expect us to share all the intimate details of our extracurricular activities, but not wanting to know anything sounds dangerously close to being in denial about the openness also applying to the other party. She's a very special person to me, and I believe that the fact that we got back together after more than a year and in spite of the still-long-enough-to-be-inconvenient distance means that we're in some way meant to be. I'm beginning to have my doubts, though. Any thoughts? Advice? What would you do if you were in my shoes?

03-31-2011, 02:10 AM	#3
Antimatter Belt Conveyor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 68	Ah, I should have said something about that. I'm open to the idea of moving to wherever, and Berlin is close enough to Copenhagen that I could still see friends and family often enough to make maintaining those ties a non-issue. However, I'm tied to here for the next few months so it won't be until sometimes in the autumn at the earliest. In my mind that is really not a long time off, though.

03-31-2011, 07:20 AM	#4
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	Long distance relationship are teh difficult. Sometimes it seems too difficult.

03-31-2011, 08:13 AM	#5
Antimatter Belt Conveyor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 68	It's not so much the distance that bothers me. I would of course rather be closer to her geographically, but I can be that from sometimes in the autumn or winter, which is not really a long time off in my book. I know it bothers her, though, and I know she's not as patient as I am. What bothers me I guess could be said is her way of dealing with the distance, except I'm not really sure that distance is the only thing bothering her.

03-31-2011, 08:18 AM	#6
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	If there are ANY opportunities for visits, I'm sure it makes a difference. That hasn't been feasible for me and my situation. One visit in two years. Sigh...

03-31-2011, 08:44 AM	#7
Antimatter Belt Conveyor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 68	Plenty of opportunities for visits. We generally see each other at least one weekend in four, the exception being when I was in Thailand and we didn't see each other for 5½ weeks. And twice since we got back together we've spent about a week together. Two years sounds almost impossibly tough, and that would definitely be too much for me.

03-31-2011, 08:48 AM	#8
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	I suppose it makes a difference if you see an 'open relationship' as a compromise. If an open relationship isn't more than a concession, then no. If you are harboring doubts now do you see yourself feeling fine about it later?

03-31-2011, 09:47 AM	#9
Antimatter Belt Conveyor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 68	Thanks, skysidhe, I think you just hit one of the nails right on the head. My doubts are mostly about her ability to handle the thought of me seeing other women. I'm not really the jealous type myself, except when I feel somebody goes behind my back, which is how I feel about her little adventure while I was in Thailand. And even then it's not that bad, actually, although I would obviously have been happier had it not happened. In the end I'm not sure if accepting her suggestion would be a compromise or a concession on my part. I guess that's part of what I'm trying to make up my mind about by soliciting your views on the situation.

04-04-2011, 03:25 PM	#15
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	I like the people who think they're fucking from halfway across the planet. That is admirable.

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