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Old 09-05-2013, 07:56 PM   #1
Nirvana
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Reasons Not To Seek Medical Attention

I really hate that people think that others can afford $400 a month for Health insurance. We can't and telling us to pay a fine is going to be hilarious because if we can't afford health insurance how can we afford a fine?

My husband's best friend died because of a surgical error and this below is almost too gross to think about ...


LINK


NH hospital calls 8 over brain disease chances


Dr. Joseph Pepe, president of Catholic Medical Center talks Thursday Sept. 4, 2013 in Manchester, N.H., about a patient who had brain surgery at the hospital and later died of a rare, degenerative brain disease. Health officials said there's a remote chance up to 13 others in multiple states were exposed to the fatal illness through surgical equipment.




Thu, 05 Sep 2013 15:55:50 -0500
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — Eight patients who may have been exposed to a fatal brain disease at a New Hampshire hospital have been contacted by the hospital's president, who said Thursday the patients aren't panicking.

Dr. Joseph Pepe called the Catholic Medical Center patients a day after health officials announced that they may have been exposed to Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease — a brain disease characterized by rapidly progressive dementia which can cause death within months after symptoms first appearing. It has no treatment or cure.

Officials believe the extremely rare disease caused the August death of a patient who had brain surgery at the hospital in May, and they say there's a remote chance it was transmitted to other brain surgery patients because the abnormal proteins that cause the disease can survive standard sterilization practices.

The patient's cause of death won't be certain until an autopsy is complete but officials believe it was caused by Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.

In addition to the eight Catholic Medical Center patients, up to five more in other states also may have been exposed because some of the surgical instruments were rented and passed on to other hospitals.

About 200 cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease are recorded annually in the United States, according to the National Institutes of Health, with the vast majority occurring spontaneously. In fewer than 1 percent of cases, the disease is transmitted by exposure to brain or nervous system tissue, and there have been only four reported cases of transmission via surgical instruments. None of those were in the United States, and the most recent case was in 1976, Pepe said.

Some hospitals might opt not to tell patients because of the low risk involved and the anxiety it could create for them, Pepe said, but it was important to keep them informed.

"We felt the risk of that anxiety did not outweigh the ethical principle of letting them know and also preventing them from possibly contaminating or exposing others should they have another brain operation," Pepe said.

The only definitive way to diagnose the disease is through a brain biopsy or autopsy. There are no screening tests, and tests that would point toward a diagnosis of the disease are only effective once symptoms such as memory loss and impaired coordination appear, Pepe said.

But he said the patients he spoke to are responding to their predicament calmly. One expressed more concern the hospital or its surgeons would be harmed by the publicity over the incident, Pepe said.

"They are all fine at this point, but I let them know that they can not only call my chief medical officer and the patient advocate ... but also myself, and we will stay with them as long as they need us," he said, adding that he apologized for causing them any anxiety.

The hospital will arrange counseling sessions if any of the patients request them, he said.

"Some may get angry later on, they may have anxiety, and then there are others who do not think anything of it," he said. "One person said, 'You know, I have really many other things more concerning than this.'" <WHO WOULD SAY THAT?
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:21 PM   #2
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If it's truly "can't afford" ...

Quote:
If You Can't Afford Insurance
- Medicaid will be extended to those who earn up to 133% of the Federal poverty level.
That's $15,281 for an individual, or $31,321.50 for a family of four in 2013.
The poverty level usually increases each year to keep up with inflation.

However, not all states have elected to expand Medicaid,
even though the Federal government will subsidize it.
If you live in a state where you are eligible for Medicaid,
but the state won't give you coverage, you won't have to pay the tax
if you can't get insurance.
But even before Medicaid, if the income is
less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 - $37,000 income = $695


If income is higher and it's more a matter of "refuse to buy"
then that is an individual decision and penalties may apply.
.
.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:32 PM   #3
Nirvana
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You would have to drag us to a Dr or a hospital before we would go to one. The health care in our area is so bad we might as well be in a 3rd world country. One time I was put on a gurney in an ER and when I looked closer at it there was blood all over it. The top sheet might have been changed but when I complained someone said oh yah that must have been from the gunshot victim earlier! REALLY? WTF

I hate hospitals and most private physicians tell me here take this pill, well no thank you... It's better to prevent maladies than take pills that make them worse. But now we are forced to pay for health Insurance that we cannot afford and will not use unless we are in a terrible accident?
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #4
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Oh and Lamp what if we make only $1000 more than the minimum WTH is the $400 a month coming from? I guess we could try calorie restriction or Alpo
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:42 PM   #5
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Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease is the human equivalent of mad cow disease. It's a prion disease seen in multiple species, including ours. Prions (abnormally folded proteins that cause other proteins to adopt abnormal structures) survive extreme temperatures and pressures, so normal sterilization procedures won't destroy them.

This is a horrifying concept, but I don't see where it follows logically that seeking medical care will harm you. A small number of people who need brain surgery may possibly encounter prion disease (the overwhelming majority don't). There is no way to anticipate who may encounter the disease. At this point, we only know after the fact. So, should all those who need brain surgery refuse it? What would be the morbidity and mortality then? Once there is a way to detect prion disease sooner, do you think it will be suppressed? Do you realize that neurosurgeons are most at risk for contracting C-J disease, and it has happened not infrequently? Or is that acceptable? Should those damned neurosurgeons who have never lived a normal adult life, having spent all of it on call, and none of whom have a successful marriage because they're married to their patients, be seen as justifiably punished, a satisfactory scapegoat for the resentment of those who want the algebra to be easy (don't even mention calculus)?

For those who have been ill enough to have needed brain surgery, I can understand some saying that they have more pressing concerns than whether to agonize over their chances of contracting a disease that affects about 1/1,000,000. Who would say that? Anyone who has had to face the imminent prospect of their death would say that.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
"One person said, 'You know, I have really many other things more concerning than this.'" <WHO WOULD SAY THAT?
Anyone having brain surgery is already extremely ill in some way or another. CJD can lie dormant for years even if it turns out they were exposed. Someone with a brain tumor that's going to kill them in no more than a year is unlikely to give a damn about the CJD.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post
But now we are forced to pay for health Insurance that we cannot afford and will not use unless we are in a terrible accident?
And if you ARE in a terrible accident, what do you propose then? I'm with you about preventing disease rather than pill-popping, but nobody plans to be in an accident. I wouldn't want you to be left on the side of the road to bleed out, if you were.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:36 AM   #8
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Clod, your posts are usually so measured.
Please tell me no citizen in one of the world's wealthiest nations (and one at the forefront of many medical developments) would be left to bleed to death by the roadside because they didn't have medical insurance?

And no, not anti-America.
We have the NHS where people are left to die on gurneys in corridors because of lack of beds, or of hospital-based infections, or dehydration despite being on hospital wards (FFS!) So it's all shocking.

But someone simply not being treated after an accident is not down to human error or over-crowding. It's barbaric.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:05 AM   #9
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No one is left by the roadside to bleed out, Sundae. The law mandates that at the bare minimum, an evaluation must be done to determine if a medical emergency or unstable condition exists. If so, the person must be treated so as to stabilize the situation. No transfer or discharge may take place before this occurs, or it's a violation of federal law (EMTALA) with huge ramifications for both the providers and the medical facility. The person doing the initial evaluation must be a physician, not a nurse. Also, it's a violation of EMTALA for inquiries about insurance to in any way impede or delay care. Most ERs will put you in a room, do your evaluation, and then someone from registration comes along and asks if you have insurance.

The only place I know of where people were turned away from an ER is Ontario. My husband worked ER there and on one shift was horrified to learn that the front desk had turned away a tourist seeking care. They had demanded $150 up front (as a bare-bones start, not as an entire visit fee) and she didn't have it. The staff informed him that there's no Canadian equivalent to EMTALA and they routinely turn away people without provincial insurance who are unable to pony up enough cash. So you could theoretically bleed out in the street in Ontario.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:22 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sundae
Clod, your posts are usually so measured.
Please tell me no citizen in one of the world's wealthiest nations (and one at the forefront of many medical developments) would be left to bleed to death by the roadside because they didn't have medical insurance?
No no, currently everyone gets treated for life-threatening injuries, but treating uninsured people is one reason (among many) that medical costs are so high for the rest of us. Nirvana was saying she shouldn't have to buy insurance because she would only use it in an accident. That's kind of the whole point of insurance. If everyone took that option, there would be zero dollars for emergency medical treatment and we would indeed have to live in a world where people bled out on the side of the road, unlike now where people with insurance are paying for the medical care of those who saw no need to purchase it for themselves.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:31 AM   #11
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There is almost always an expectation by those with no insurance
that someone will take care of them. At the individual level, they do receive care.
But at a societal level there is still the expectation that if you can afford it,
you should be paying your fair share.

This is what the Obamacare "tax" is all about.
It's your choice to refuse to buy insurance, but as a member of society
you should still participate in some way ... $ if you can afford it.

(The IRS is there to help you make your decisions )

I'm not sure if it fits the precise definition, but "moral imperative" comes to mind,
just as society has an imperative to take care of those who can't care for themselves.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:47 AM   #12
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Thanks all. Colour me partly educated.
Sounds a bit like a TV licence.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
And if you ARE in a terrible accident, what do you propose then? I'm with you about preventing disease rather than pill-popping, but nobody plans to be in an accident. I wouldn't want you to be left on the side of the road to bleed out, if you were.
Well good thing that would be unlawful but if I am hurt very badly I hope I die because the horror of many hospitals would be unbearable.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:33 PM   #14
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"Nirvana was saying she shouldn't have to buy insurance "

No no Nirvana did not say that. We have insurance but rates are going higher than ever and it doesn't matter if you do not follow the protocol of annual check ups and going for every little thing like a splinter. Those are the people that raise the cost of health care going for unnecessary procedures like some MRIs and cats scans billed just so hospitals can bill insurance companies. People on fixed incomes are not going to be able to afford insurance that will allow them access to quality care. I am petrified of the exposure to Drs and nurses with rudimentary skills.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #15
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"Most ERs will put you in a room, do your evaluation, and then someone from registration comes along and asks if you have insurance."

I so have to call bullshit here The few times I have been in an ER they did not even take me back to a room until the paperwork was completed. [different hospitals] One time I had a belt wrapped around my leg to stop the bleeding from a wound that required 32 stitches..
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