The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2018, 12:40 PM   #16
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
This is using Fascist approaches to fight Fascism. How far will it go?
...
... full implications ... most alarming ... I expect to hear a lot more of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
I've believed in a lot of libertarian crises in my day that turned out to be not much at all, so it takes something pretty nasty to sway me.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 03:01 PM   #17
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
...I anticipated that objection, which is why I specified what nasty is: inventing new rights to be violated, such as the right not to be offended. That's not a right; in fact exactly the opposite, it's specifically meant to control speech, and really, to control thought.

It's not a slippery slope, it's a problem right now: people are being prosecuted right now for saying things.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 03:08 PM   #18
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
And yes, th middle finger is commonly used here. Even in Yorkshire :P
*sigh* What is left of traditional culture.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 03:28 PM   #19
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
*sigh* What is left of traditional culture.
Pies.


We'll always have pies. Proper pies. Proper British pies.
__________________
Quote:
There's only so much punishment a man can take in pursuit of punani. - Sundae
http://sites.google.com/site/danispoetry/
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 05:29 PM   #20
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
...I anticipated that objection, ... such as the right not to be offended.
Actual problem is rarely discussed. Why is Trump so popular? Because he is routinely offensive. Most adults respect a bully; not the honest and informed. Throughout history, that is how ignorant bullies - who are destructive to their supporters - are so popular and gain so much support and power.

It goes right back to a fundamental problem. Many adults are still children. They make conclusions from their emotions - fail to use a pre-frontal cortex.

An adult acting like an adult will first collect facts and then make a logical conclusion. Supporters of bullies make an immediate conclusion from their emotions. Automatically believe a first thing told. And then are so emotional as to deny any realities and facts that expose the lie.

We all saw this with Saddam's WMDs. Facts clearly stated WMDs did not exist. But fears, lies, and other emotional hype even claimed Saddam was a threat to the US mainland.

Obviously that was impossible. Even countries adjacent to Iraq said he was not a threat. But emotions were embedded in so many who made decisions based only in their fears and other emotions.

That explains why offensive speech is so dangerous. Even successfully used by Hitler to define Jews as evil. It was so easily used by Hitler to justify racism - a superior blue eyed, blond haired superior German race. Those lies were believed because so many adults thought emotionally like children.

Obviously those claims were bogus to adults who were thinking like adults. It also explains the entrenched and obviously ignorant support for The Donald.

It is not just Trump who plays this emotion card. Bernie Sanders was doing same. Yes, his objectives were admirable. But his solutions had no basis in reality. Even his supporters, when challenged to explain their support, would recite myths. A classic one was the Federal Reserve is a private corporation harmful to the economy.

Tea Party was created on another lie - that TARP was evil to enrich the elitists (ie Rockefellers). Basic economics were irrelevant to their emotions. Many adults think like children - making offensive speech so dangerous.

So we address offensive speech rather then the reason why offensive speech creates so much evil. Unfortunately, it is not possible to require adults to think like adults - even if they use emotions to create a crime - like the launch of the Challenger. It usually takes something like murder (ie drag racing on public streets) to address this problem.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 05:30 PM   #21
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
... inventing new rights to be violated, such as the right not to be offended. That's not a right; in fact exactly the opposite, it's specifically meant to control speech, and really, to control thought.
...
How about the right not to be offended by consenting adults who are sharing/communicating explicit material via the internet which does not objectify much less "traffic" anyone, and specifically only involves (in ANY way) the willing, consenting, adult participants?
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 05:56 PM   #22
tw
Read? I only know how to write.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
Offensive speech even in tonight's news. Rather than do research for a Veterans Administration secretary, the Donald did (last month) what the emotional do. He promoted his White House doctor.

Turns out this doctor (Jackson) was demeaning, offensive, an over aggressive pill pusher, and may have come to work drunk. Rather than admit he did not do what an adult does (do the research), the Donald instead attacked to so many who came forward with facts. It took about a month for reality to get to the Donald.

How many citizens so hate America as to believe the Donald's offensive accusations rather than learn facts? Too many.
Quote:
I don’t want to put a man through a process like this. The fact is, I wouldn’t do it. What does he need it for? To be abused by a number of politicians?
What would an adult do? Learn how this president makes decisions only based upon his first emotions. He promoted someone he knows (but not very well) and without doing any homework. He could not bother to find a person who is best and qualified for the job.

Ironically, he fired the previous (and well respected) administrator via a Tweet. This president does not have the balls to fire anyone personally - and with facts that justify that decision.

How do bullies obtain support and power? How does he justify his ignorance? He offensively attacks others. That makes hiim popular among adults who are still children.
tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 09:10 PM   #23
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
How about the right not to be offended by consenting adults who are sharing/communicating explicit material via the internet which does not objectify much less "traffic" anyone, and specifically only involves (in ANY way) the willing, consenting, adult participants?
That represents about 30% of Internet traffic, as of a few years ago. The Internet is For Porn.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 10:28 PM   #24
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
"Nazi pug" comic -- makes his point, better than it's ever been made before.

Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 07:19 AM   #25
Clodfobble
UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 20,012
I can't follow their accents... he's saying "You just said the sentence 2 minutes ago, why should I consider your context if you won't consider mine," but what illegal/offensive sentence did the journalist say? Was it the "You said 'gas the Jews' 23 times" bit?
Clodfobble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 07:26 AM   #26
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
Yes. The journalist spoke the exact same words, but as a quote. Nobody will think the journalist is anti-Semitic, because of the context of the phrase being a quote. Therefor context matters.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:12 PM   #27
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Much ado about nothing.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 02:22 PM   #28
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
Note: It's not Snoop Dogg lyrics, apparently there's also a Snap Dogg.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2018, 12:23 PM   #29
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
That represents about 30% of Internet traffic, as of a few years ago. The Internet is For Porn.
What is the line between "porn" and consensual sex work, such as "cam girls" --are the operators of those websites "trafficking" the participants, or are they consenting adults?
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2018, 04:57 PM   #30
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
There is no line.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.