Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well done, Beestie.

She tried to transfer responsibility to him by bringing up every reason in the book - he doesn't make enough money, he isn't this, he isn't that, blah, blah, blah. He never understood why she never told him any of this during the 20 years they were married and raised two kids.

Good point. No matter what his shortcomings have been in the past, if she hasn't at least brought them up for discussion, they are moot.

I hear people talking about how they, or their friends, were blindsided, and lament the past xx years being taken away. But that's not true..... nothing chages the past. It's the future, that you've been planning, working toward, looking forward to, that's being snatched away. You've been suddenly voted off the island and have to start over toward a new goal. That always sucks.

First of all, I hope the entire thing was just some temporary bout of insanity on Mrs. L's part. I hope the entire thing has already blown over, but if not:

YAY, Beestie! Great words of wisdom in your post! I, too, have been there. My last relationship of 6 years ended with the most amazing dissonance and betrayal. In my case, I had unwittingly become involved with a very slick con artist who seemed so real at the time. One morning I woke up and he had left for someone else along with over 20,000 of my money unaccounted for. It makes a girl's head spin, and I suspect it would any guy's, too, if he were subjected to the same treatment.

I consider you my worthy opponent on many other matters, Lookout, but in this matter, if that's what it comes down to, I am 100% on your side! I'm a girl, too, and me the other members of the female persuasion around here can give you lots of insight into how a woman's mind can work and give you plenty of support and deadly ammo, should you need it.

I so hope you won't need it! But if you do, count me on your side on this one. Its just wrong!

[Hemlock]

The only question I have - and perhaps it shows my ignorance of human behavior - is why do people engage in such destructive behaviors?

We as humans can think, and although sometimes we do not, we have the power to overcome our more "primitive" instincts.

No idea here. I guess people are just jerks, and unwilling to change.

[Brett's Honey]

Originally Posted by Hemlock

The only question I have - and perhaps it shows my ignorance of human behavior - is why do people engage in such destructive behaviors?

We as humans can think, and although sometimes we do not, we have the power to overcome our more "primitive" instincts.

No idea here. I guess people are just jerks, and unwilling to change.

And sometimes they are very selfish.

[limey]

Lookout? How are you doing?

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Oh, and lookout? She's seeing someone.

Not necessarily. I posted this thread awhile back. I never did see a counselor (though we have in the past). I have mentioned this before, but I frequently battle depression, and am currently on Zoloft for it. As it turns out, occasionally when it gets bad, I tend to blame hubby for what I perceive to be all the 'bad' stuff in my life at the time. Shortly after posting said thread, I realized that I was in a lower than usual low, and instead of a counselor, I upped my meds for awhile, and checked out a bunch of books about marriage from the library. I never mentioned to him anything that I wrote in that post, thankfully. I keep a mental list of all of the things that are great about him and us so that when I start to question things, I can whip it out and counter every gripe I *think* I have with a fact. So far this has kept me from doing something really stupid, like actually moving out, or cheating etc.

Where I am going with this is maybe the same type of thing is happening with her. She is feeling really shitty (un-diagnosed depression?), doesn't know why, and due to the way the world works, blames the person closest to her for her problems. I am probably WAY off base, but at least for me, one of the signals that I am in a low is I start to question my marriage. Fortunately I have never cheated on my husband when I was busy blaming him for all my bad feelings, which is why I say to noodle, cheating may not be the reason for her 'crazy' behavior.

Check out that thread, there was some really SUPER advice there. I actually feel kind of stupid that so many cellarites had so much good to say, and I was just mental at the time and thought I wanted a divorce...

I truely hope that she figures out WHY she feels the way she does, and that it is something that can be fixed. Be it getting a less jaded group of friends, on medication, whatever. We are here in your corner while you battle this horrible situation. Hug the little one a lot. It should help.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I actually feel kind of stupid that so many cellarites had so much good to say, and I was just mental at the time and thought I wanted a divorce...

Don't

We are here in your corner while you battle this horrible situation.

That's why.

[lookout123]

not doing well at all. she went to the first counseling session on her own and came back with good words. she promised that she will be 100% committed to seeing if this will work. the problem is that she has already decided that it can't work, so she has only committed to seeing it to that end. i will see the guy on tuesday for my session, so we'll see how it goes.

we just had a heartbreaking 90 minute conversation about the issue and it is absolutely apparent that her mind is made up even if she is saying she is willing to try. what she isn't saying is that she WANTS it to work.

we have spent the last 4 nights laughing and joking and talking and her telling me how much she loves me... like a happily married couple. until tonight she has been my best friend and lover with hope for the future - from 4-midnight. she wakes up in the morning cold and distant.

immediately following her session, she stopped even the returning the "i love you" we always exchanged.

she swears up and down and sideways that there is no one else - i remain skeptical. she is throwing out the "you don't make enough money" bit. i make a fair living and it is increasing - but she still won't quit working, so i know that isn't the real issue. she says i am a great friend, she doesn't love me anymore, and can't remember when she ever did.

the hard part is that if i start pulling my defenses together to protect myself for what seems a likely divorce, then i will have put up walls that guarantee a divorce is inevitable. i'm not ready to throw in the towel

it has only been 7 years, and i cannot even imagine a life without her in it. i'm circling the drain into despair and hopelessness.

i know if we do divorce in order to get my fair share of the stuff it will be a battle which will forever poison our relationship - which is only important for little lookout's sake.

i've that i can sleep though. Ambien is a magical little pill. take it while standing over your bed- you aren't going anywhere. wake up six hours later well rested. tht has got me back on my workout routine at least. so, i've got that going for me. otherwise i would spend my nights replaying every conversation we've had, every kiss, every shag, everyday filled with pain where we just held each other.
http://cellar.org/attachment.php?att...tid=6761&stc=1

Damn, Lookout, just damn! When I was on the cusp of my divorce from a 20 year marriage, I went into this divorce support group trying to find answers. The counselor said the very fact that I was there meant that my marriage was over. He said that in his experience, once one member of the marriage stated that they wanted out in no uncertain terms, very few couples managed to put things back together.

Not what you want to hear, I know. The accusation that you don't make enough money is a low blow. It sounds to me as if you are making a pretty good living, but what really matters is that your worth as a husband, a lover, a friend, and a father cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents. Yeah, money is nice, but its only the icing on the cake of the good man you truely are.

And you are a good guy, Lookout. We have violently disagreed on many things on this board, but the one thing I have always admired about you is that you didn't let it get overly personal. I have always felt that at the end of the day, we could shake hands and agree to disagree.

That's another heart crushing blow for her to say she doesn't love you anymore, and, in fact, never loved you. Those words make me think she's got someone else. She's deluding herself, making her actions all better in her mind, and sacrificing you and your son on the alter of some "truer" love. She'll eventually discover how messed up this is, but by then you'll most likely be happily re-married to someone else.

I'm sorry for your pain, Lookout. I wish I had words to make it better. Only time does that and time takes time.

I afraid you're gonna have to wrap your heart in alligator hide in order to fight for yourself and your son.

[richlevy]

If you do your part, then you will have done what is necessary to move on knowing you have tried. Just remember that a large percentage of marriages end in divorce. This means there are a lot of people out there who have gone through the same thing, and half of them are women.

If it does come time to move on, you will find an available pool of women to share experiences with. For a lot of reasons, the few second marriages I know of seem more centered, possibly because the partners are more mature when they start them.

I agree with Mari, Lookout, that we've had our differences of opinion but you seem like a decent guy who is willing to at consider other points of view. I hope this works out for you, whether with your wife or a future companion.

[lookout123]

why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

[wolf]

You have not failed. She is quitting.

[lookout123]

A) i'm not giving up yet. i have faith that all things can be resolved.

B) i know that if this ends in divorce that i will survive. i know there are other fish in the sea. i know it is entirely possible that i will find another to my liking. my feeling though, is "why bother"?

before we met, i was a serial dater. that was about the only think i was really, really good at during that time. i'm not talking just sex - i had a few dating relationships where i was the one they called to go to "upscale" locations and we never ended up in the sack. it was a lifestyle. one that i enjoyed. (the thought of it revolts me, now).

all that changed the moment i met her. i had already had one date that day, and had another planned for that night. i met her and my life instantly changed. i felt it happen and knew it for what it was. 5 minutes later called my date for that night and canceled. i never believed in love at first sight or anything like that before then. i certainly wasn't looking for it. but for 7 years i have not had a thought or a decision that she didn't factor into somehow. a wonderful friend, excellent conversationalist, intelligent, well traveled, adventurous, wild, and the single best lover i have ever had, bar none.

the thought of ever finding someone that compares to that experience... i don't know.

Lookout, a relationship, especially a marriage takes TWO partners! If one doesn't want to make the effort to make the thing work, it won't work. You can be in there endlessly giving 100%, but if your partner is giving 0%, its impossible. That is not YOUR fault!

The reasons you have told us that your wife gives for wanting to a divorce are simply not valid. You obviously make enough money. If your wife was never in love with you, she should never have married you. I think she is being dishonest on this count. She is simply making up a lie in order to justify her egregious actions.

A woman does not marry a man she is NOT in love with - OK, a fortune hunter or someone who just wants to coast might, but other than that, we women tend to be very picky about such things. We hold out for the man we will fall in love with.

I have seen you post here about trying to make your relationship work. I have seen your concern and love for your son. I have seen your interactions with members of this forum. By everything I am able to tell about you, you are a decent, caring man.

Suppose you opened up a stock broker's office with a partner. Your partner never comes into work. When he does show up, he hasn't bothered to study the market or read any of the financial analysis or even notice if the economy is going up or down. As a result he makes bad decisions. Eventually your company begins to lose money because of this, despite your best efforts. Is the failure of your company YOUR fault? NO!

Don't beat yourself up this way, Lookout!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by lookout123

why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

Sometimes no matter how bright your suit of lights or how hard you try, the bull wins. There is no shame if you did your best, 'cause there ain't no manual.