mother lets children die in hot car while getting her hair done. - Page 2

Undertoad · 07-01-2002, 08:00 PM

It turns out she was pregnant.

Y'know, some stories are just soap operas masquerading as news.

jennofay · 07-01-2002, 09:30 PM

pregnant, eh? cute. well, at least shell have nice hair in jail...

i think that jail time would definately be suitable. she neglected her children. people who hit their kids wind up in jail, why shouldnt someone who murdered her kids through neglect? i doubt she will, and i dont really think she should, be put to death. unless, of course, evidence comes out that this was planned. then i may rethink my actions. as awful as it is, it appears to be accidental, not premeditated. i think the death penalty would be overkill (pardon the pun). tw asked if the loss of her two children was enough? i dont think so. if she didnt care enough to check on her children during the three hours she was at the salon, how much does she REALLY care that her children are dead? i know that sounds horrible, but it does reflect on her. undoubtedly, she feels remorse for her actions and a great sense of loss, but i somehow cant feel sympathy. the windows were rolled up. this is simple stupidity. other thoughts, anyone?

perth · 07-01-2002, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
It is not just that she murdered her kids... Point three - then she tried to claim she was kidnapped and raped

it doesnt sound like she is showing remorse. the way i see it, to feel remorse requires you to take responsibility for for your actions. she lied to cover her tracks. thats not remorse. it is murder and the punishment should fit the crime. i dont really know what is required for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree murder, this certainly went far beyond neglect. so if it was me handing out the punishment, id lock her up and throw away the key. objectively, she should receive a punishment appropriate to the 'degree' to which she committed murder.

~james

jennofay · 07-01-2002, 09:59 PM

she has been charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one count of felony child abuse. if im not mistaken. just to let 'ya know.

Hubris Boy · 07-01-2002, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spinningfetus

Eugenics!!!

Yes. By all means. Mr. Holmes had it right the first time around.

274 U.S. 200

Quote:

It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

elSicomoro · 07-01-2002, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jennofay
she has been charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one count of felony child abuse. if im not mistaken. just to let 'ya know.

The Detroit Free Press reports she was charged with two counts of felony murder and two counts of first-degree child abuse. No death penalty...life in prison is the max.

And I'll go with the life in prison. Her actions caused the deaths of two people. It'll give her a good 50-60 years to think about what she did and how it wrecked her life. Getting the death penalty to me is the easy way out (although I don't believe in the death penalty anyway). I'm a much bigger fan of mind torture.

jennofay · 07-01-2002, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

The Detroit Free Press reports she was charged with two counts of felony murder and two counts of first-degree child abuse. No death penalty...life in prison is the max.

this could be right, too :p i was getting my information from what i remembered reading off of cnn.com earlier.

MaggieL · 07-02-2002, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
Having been outraged for a day, now to ask hard, logical, unemotional questions. What should be the penalty? Remeber, the kids are dead. If she claims remorse, are we to assume she has suffered enough? Will putting her in jail reform her? Will putting her to death solve anything?

I think she should be sentenced to six hours (two kids times three hours) locked in a car at the same temperature. Maybe just a wee bit warmer.

perth · 07-02-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieL
I think she should be sentenced to six hours (two kids times three hours) locked in a car at the same temperature. Maybe just a wee bit warmer.

i remember reading somewhere that a fullgrown person does a better job handling the heat than a child does, i think because of increased surface area. so sadly, she may survive that ordeal. unless, by 'just a wee bit warmer' you mean about a hundred degrees

id be all for that.

~james

MaggieL · 07-02-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by perth

.... unless, by 'just a wee bit warmer' you mean about a hundred degrees

Like Mr. Mom said: " 220, 221, whatever it takes".

I'd think an adult would have less surface area per unit volume, but I'm not an expert on the subject.

perth · 07-02-2002, 06:33 PM

me neither. but if i can dig up where i read that, ill post it. just as some anecdotal evidence, my son is sitting on my lap as i type, and he is way sweatier than i am.

~james

thebecoming · 07-02-2002, 09:37 PM

Im suprised that anyone is shocked by this behavior anymore. Doesnt this happen evey summer? To some poor child?
This woman should be at the least sterilized, at the exterme boiled alive.

I can recount to you hundreds of worse tales of Parents who were obviously anything but.

jennofay · 07-02-2002, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebecoming
Im suprised that anyone is shocked by this behavior anymore. Doesnt this happen evey summer? To some poor child?

i think the fact that it does happen about every summer is part of the reason it still gets to people. you would think people would learn by now. and its not shock so much... as one of the judges said, we treat animals better than this. not to mention the story she conjured up. its just disappointing more than anything.

seer · 07-03-2002, 04:56 AM

[devil's adv]

I don't want to defend her by any means, but I wonder... what's the point of jail time? Some people here have some, um, creative ideas for punishment, and I bet many of them were popular in the middle ages, but are they valid today? Plus, who are you to decied who has children and who doesn't? That's not sliding down a slippery slope, that jumping head first off the cliff!

But Is even jail time vaild today? What does that do, really?

I guess it keeps "bad people" all together, away from the rest of society, for at least some time. Many people are let out before their "life", and what will they have learned from jail? To be a good member of society? I'm not sure of that. They might have learnt that if you get caught it'll be hell on earth, but that's not all prisioners learn. They learn the best way to rip off a store and most likely many other "bad things". I guess for social value they learn how to be a part of the pack/gang. They learn their rank in the gang. That sure sounds like "reform" to me.

They might gain more resentment for their crime... or maybe the system that put them away. They might make plates, or dig ditches, or some other job away from the working poor. Hell, they might even make Nike's.

I know I'm just talking out my ass, but I've been thinking about the death penalty a lot recently, and I can't understand it. How is killing someone for their crime any better than what they did? I can't and don't want to defend these people's crimes (and hers two fold) but killing them seems like what the bully might think of on the school yard. It seems childish.

Even Galdalf said "There are many alive that should die, and many dead that ought to have life... can you bring it to them?" Silly quote, I know, but it got me thinking, and the death question led me to ask "What is a good punishment anyway?" and jail didn't pop up. I can think of a lot of bad things that jail might teach someone, and a thin few good things.

[/devil's adv]

And yes, It's 2:50am, I can't sleep for some reason, and I'm thinking big thoughts about life and death. Must be a Tuesday. I never got the hang of Tuesdays.

Share the day,
Seer/

07-03-2002, 08:50 AM

I think the main purpose of jail time should be "keep the crime from happening again".

The woman obviously has a very difficult time dealing with the responsibility of having children. If she's capable of leaving them in a car for three hours (whether it's hot or not), she has serious issues. Now you examine the other facts of her story - that she drove around for an hour coming up with a BS story that puts the blame on someone else instead of simply accepting responsibility. You know, we probably wouldn't have even heard about this story if she hadn't lied to the police. If she had told the truth, she probably would have been slapped on the wrist and that would be that. And yet she did lie, and now she's shown that she's unfit to be a member of our society.

I'm against the death penalty too, but I have <b>no problem</b> with long jail sentences. Put simply, when you fuck up <b>that big</b>, you forfeit your right to live a normal life. It sucks, but that's the way of it. We don't need grossly negligent people running around this planet. It's always someone else that ends up paying the price for their errors.

07-01-2002, 09:30 PM	#17
jennofay ..the small and meek. Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: virginia Posts: 176	pregnant, eh? cute. well, at least shell have nice hair in jail... i think that jail time would definately be suitable. she neglected her children. people who hit their kids wind up in jail, why shouldnt someone who murdered her kids through neglect? i doubt she will, and i dont really think she should, be put to death. unless, of course, evidence comes out that this was planned. then i may rethink my actions. as awful as it is, it appears to be accidental, not premeditated. i think the death penalty would be overkill (pardon the pun). tw asked if the loss of her two children was enough? i dont think so. if she didnt care enough to check on her children during the three hours she was at the salon, how much does she REALLY care that her children are dead? i know that sounds horrible, but it does reflect on her. undoubtedly, she feels remorse for her actions and a great sense of loss, but i somehow cant feel sympathy. the windows were rolled up. this is simple stupidity. other thoughts, anyone? __________________ i sneak up and hit you like a fuckin' tornado

07-01-2002, 09:59 PM	#19
jennofay ..the small and meek. Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: virginia Posts: 176	she has been charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one count of felony child abuse. if im not mistaken. just to let 'ya know. __________________ i sneak up and hit you like a fuckin' tornado

07-02-2002, 09:37 PM	#27
thebecoming Drawn Druid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wisconsin Posts: 32	Im suprised that anyone is shocked by this behavior anymore. Doesnt this happen evey summer? To some poor child? This woman should be at the least sterilized, at the exterme boiled alive. I can recount to you hundreds of worse tales of Parents who were obviously anything but. __________________ Fear profits man nothing, though you may go hide in a hole if you wish.

07-03-2002, 04:56 AM	#29
seer Provocateur Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Eureka, CA Posts: 9	i don't want to defend her... [devil's adv] I don't want to defend her by any means, but I wonder... what's the point of jail time? Some people here have some, um, creative ideas for punishment, and I bet many of them were popular in the middle ages, but are they valid today? Plus, who are you to decied who has children and who doesn't? That's not sliding down a slippery slope, that jumping head first off the cliff! But Is even jail time vaild today? What does that do, really? I guess it keeps "bad people" all together, away from the rest of society, for at least some time. Many people are let out before their "life", and what will they have learned from jail? To be a good member of society? I'm not sure of that. They might have learnt that if you get caught it'll be hell on earth, but that's not all prisioners learn. They learn the best way to rip off a store and most likely many other "bad things". I guess for social value they learn how to be a part of the pack/gang. They learn their rank in the gang. That sure sounds like "reform" to me. They might gain more resentment for their crime... or maybe the system that put them away. They might make plates, or dig ditches, or some other job away from the working poor. Hell, they might even make Nike's. I know I'm just talking out my ass, but I've been thinking about the death penalty a lot recently, and I can't understand it. How is killing someone for their crime any better than what they did? I can't and don't want to defend these people's crimes (and hers two fold) but killing them seems like what the bully might think of on the school yard. It seems childish. Even Galdalf said "There are many alive that should die, and many dead that ought to have life... can you bring it to them?" Silly quote, I know, but it got me thinking, and the death question led me to ask "What is a good punishment anyway?" and jail didn't pop up. I can think of a lot of bad things that jail might teach someone, and a thin few good things. [/devil's adv] And yes, It's 2:50am, I can't sleep for some reason, and I'm thinking big thoughts about life and death. Must be a Tuesday. I never got the hang of Tuesdays. Share the day, Seer/

07-01-2002, 08:00 PM	#16
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It turns out she was pregnant. Y'know, some stories are just soap operas masquerading as news.

07-02-2002, 06:33 PM	#26
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	me neither. but if i can dig up where i read that, ill post it. just as some anecdotal evidence, my son is sitting on my lap as i type, and he is way sweatier than i am. ~james

07-03-2002, 08:50 AM	#30
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I think the main purpose of jail time should be "keep the crime from happening again". The woman obviously has a very difficult time dealing with the responsibility of having children. If she's capable of leaving them in a car for three hours (whether it's hot or not), she has serious issues. Now you examine the other facts of her story - that she drove around for an hour coming up with a BS story that puts the blame on someone else instead of simply accepting responsibility. You know, we probably wouldn't have even heard about this story if she hadn't lied to the police. If she had told the truth, she probably would have been slapped on the wrist and that would be that. And yet she did lie, and now she's shown that she's unfit to be a member of our society. I'm against the death penalty too, but I have <b>no problem</b> with long jail sentences. Put simply, when you fuck up <b>that big</b>, you forfeit your right to live a normal life. It sucks, but that's the way of it. We don't need grossly negligent people running around this planet. It's always someone else that ends up paying the price for their errors.

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