The right way to stop a bully

[Sundae]

I am very uncomfortable watching a child have his leg broken.
If I hadn't known that fact I might not be so squeamish.

I think children should be taught that brute force is not an appropriate response
When they are pushed beyond endurance it is certainly understandable, but the least they can do is make sure the response is appropriate.

There have been many international situations where a pile-driver has been used to crack a nut. We should be teaching children that this is not something to be celebrated. You don't break the leg of a yappy dog - that's jusy cruel. Why have a lesser value for a human?

[monster]

I think that brute force was entirely appropriate.

[DanaC]

Sorry I am with Sundae on this one. I totally understand the kid's response. I sympathis entirely. I've been in a similar situation to some earlier posters: having been bullied relentlessly by a pack of girls,led by one in particular (who'd fucking followed me from primary/junior school!) I kicked the crap out of her in the middle of our fourth form art class. Made her cry, snapped her necklace, humiliated her in front of her friends. I'll be honest. It felt good. really good.

But I still should not have done it. I completely lost control. Absolute blind rage. It worked. I wasn't bullied again in school, ever, by anyone. Total, uncontrolled rage as a means to achieve what I wanted ? Not a good lesson to learn.

Now I am not saying that the kid in the video was in an uncontrolled rage. Clearly he wasn't. But he does need to understand the potential for his strength to harm someone else.

What I find really disturbing about this thread is the righteous anger, or even glee over what is essentially a child, most likely a troubled child, being harmed. Harmed because of his own actions maybe. Brought it on himself, certainly. A child, being harmed by another child.

The 14 year old kid buried (not so very) deep in my mind does a double-take. Part of me is cheering the worm that turned. But part of me is wondering wtf is going on in the little lad's mind. And all of me winces at the very thought that I am watching his bone break.

What if that was your kid? It isn't just the kids of bad parents and broken homes who do that shit you know? Good kids, from loving families can go off the rails. Can start bullying others. Can feel powerless for whatever reason and start acting out. How the fuck would you feel if we were sitting here pronouncing awesome justice as your child rolls in pain?

[Flint]

The answer: I don't tolerate bullshit from my children. When they are harmed as a result of their own actions I am not sympathetic. It is more important to me that they learn how to behave properly than for them to "feel good" all the time and never experience anything unpleasant that might force them to, you know, GROW as individuals.

So how would I feel if the little shit was my child? After seeing that behavior, there would be a serious day of reckoning. I will take the child to get his leg looked at by a doctor, but I will be goddamned if there is one ounce of visible sympathy he will be able to detect in my terrible visage.

[DanaC]

Feel good?

Broken leg. That's a hell of a punishment for acting up.

Either way. I still find the tenor of this discussion frankly disturbing.

We are grown ups. Crowing about a schoolboy fight where a child's leg gets broken.

[Flint]

It is not about the age of individuals. Project into the future, that little shit is a guy you get into a road rage incident with. If he causes his own car to wreck, or ends up getting pulled over by the police, yes, we would drive a away laughing. "Serves him right" knows no age limits.

[Aliantha]

If my kid acted that way towards his peers, I'd break his leg myself (or at least tan his hide a fair bit). There is no way I'd put up with that sort of behaviour from any of my kids, and I'm with Flint on this. There'd be no sympathy from me if they happened to get their comuppence.

You might say this is just theoretical, but it's not. My boys have all taken their knocks over things they shouldn't have done and they've had to suck it up with nothing more than concern over the immediate injury from me and a big fat, "I hope you've learned your lesson since my warnings weren't enough for you".

They hold their own, but they're not bullies and that's all I expect from them. I wouldn't condone them breaking another child's leg, but I certainly wouldn't censure them if I knew they'd been the victim of bullying. Children should feel that it's ok to stand up for themselves, and ultimately, we all know that telling someone in authority that you're being bullied rarely, if ever has a positive outcome.

eta: When Aden and Mav moved school once, the smart mouth little bully taunted them on their way home for weeks calling them 'nigger' because of their dark skin. They and I made complaints to the school about it but it continued until Aden snotted the kid, after which the potty mouth magically closed.

[DanaC]

It isn't the fact that he broke the kid's leg I have a most trouble with. It's the fact it's on youtube, and we're watching it and finding some kind of entertainment in it, taking pleasure in seeing this justice meted out.

There were times, as a child that I caused situations in which I got hurt/injured. Had my mum responded with I told you so, or serves you right, I'd have been devastated. Unless you're a complete moron, some part of you will know that you did that to yourself and take the lesson anyway. Maybe when the dust had settled it might have come up. But the idea that I could come to physical harm and my parent respond with any kind of a lack of sympathy just does not compute for me.

I am stepping out of this thread now before I end up really pissing someone off.

[Aliantha]

From and Australian perspective - and I'm sure the other aussies will correct me if I've got it wrong - the reason this thing has gone viral is because bullying is a big issue at schools, and it seems to me that the PC way of dealing with the situation is simply ineffective. If a bully knows that the worst thing to happen is suspension or expulsion, then often they don't care. And even more wrongly, the victim is often told to just ignore it. Yes a lot of bullying issues can be traced back to previous trauma of some kind but not all, and even if they are, it doesn't give one kid the right to villify another just because they feel like it.

eta: I don't know if I'd call it 'crowing' over the kid getting what's been coming to him, but certainly people have a right to express how they feel about it. Personally, I feel sorry his leg is broken, but I don't feel sorry that he was taken down a peg. We all have to learn that there's always going to be someone stronger or faster or smarter or whatever in life. Some just need the lesson in black and white.

[footfootfoot]

Maybe beside the point but lookout is the only reference I've found to a broken leg. I would be surprised if it was more than a bruised ankle. He gets up and limps around on it. Either he's part pit bull or he just got a smacked leg/ankle.

And Dana, you probably saved that girl a lifetime of being an asshole. Yeah, 2 minutes in the penalty box for a hormonal rollercoaster teen who lost control of her emotions once. How can you live with yourself? Jeez, I hope you can learn to forgive your self for being normal. As Griff said, be genlte with yourself, the world won't be. (or summat, innit?)

[DanaC]

Oh I am not beating myself up (pardon the pun) over it. Vicky and I ended up being quite good friends afterwards.

Which is how I know what was making her such a bitch. The fact is our school was failing in their duty to safeguard me (we are talking very serious bullying), but they had also abysmally failed to pick up on the fact that Vicky was in complete crisis and was in greater need of safeguarding than I was.

[be-bop]

I don't agree with Dana or Sundae here, kids on the whole are vicious little pack animals and it's all very well puting adult analogous to how kids should act,but we all know kids don't think like adults.
They cannot link actions with consequences, I have two Daughters both now grown up but the hassle my wife and I had with other girls picking on them was horrendous.
The school had a policy to deal with bullying but it was useless.
I was only bullied once at school and I found a swift kick in the nuts of anyone that tried usually concentrated their minds, there's an old Scottish saying which is right for the little guy that started the shit
Hell mind him.

[morethanpretty]

Violence is never the answer, unless the question is "what is never the answer?"

Seriously, I am with Dana and Sundae on this. I don't blame the kid for his response either, but he did have other choices. They might not have worked as immediately, but one punch can kill a person/kid. What if he had accidentally knocked the kids head against that corner rather than just his leg? The kid needs to learn that there can be very very serious consequences for letting his temper loose, even if the other party "deserves it."

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by be-bop

it's all very well puting adult analogous to how kids should act,but we all know kids don't think like adults.
.

Precisely my point. We are adults watching this. Why are we cheering on at the sidelines of a schoolyard fight? And seemingly revelling in a child getting his comeuppance?

MTP, I agree about the other options. I would never in a gazillion years suggest that I deserved to be bullied at school. Kids are cruel 'pack animals' as be-bop suggests, and it takes very little to bring you to a bully's attention, and that attention can be very focussed sometimes for years.

But I know, looking back, that I was not very socially adept around other kids. Early, smalller scale teasing in infant school had stunted what was initially quite normal socialisation, and been exacerbated by extended periods of absence. I didn't have the necessary tools and social skills at my disposal to bridge the distance.

There are other options when dealing with bullies. Some effective, some less so. Unfortunately they are not easily taught. But to sugget that violence is the 'right way' to deal with bullying is a dangerous lesson to learn and to teach. Soimetimes a violent response resolves the situation. Sometimes it simply feeds into a cycle. Sometimes it really does seem like the only rational response, and who knows, maybe that means in those cases it is. But with violent response always comes the potential for serious harm. As Moar said, what if the bully had been pushed and cracked his skull on the corner?

I remember reading reports of a guy, quite recently, who' punched another man for some inconsequential slight, causing to have a heart attack and die. He's now serving serious prison time, and a man is dead, because of a single punch.

Kids are a little animal in their instinctiveness, in their lack of understanding of consequence, the part of their brain that deals wiith that kind of future pacing, association and impulse control isn't fully developed until very late in the teens. But as adults we understand the potential consequences of violence.

[monster]

but Dana, did you go on to be a person who used uncontrolled violence to resolve every problem? Did you learn that lesson from your experience? No.

Note so far the demographics of the naysayers. Young, childless, women. No disrespect intended, but maybe it's the parenting switch that turns this one on, not just our experiences with bullies aand psychology classes? I'm generally a "violence is not the answer" type person. I'm anti death penalty. But sometimes violence is the answer. If he'd've hit the kid with the camera, then I would agree with you. But he didn't, he just stopped the kid that was hitting him. Then he left. He didn't kick him into a gelatinous pulp. He defended himself and then walked away. And I bet that kid will never punch him or another kid in the face again. And I don't believe the big kid will go around smashing kids to the ground to get everything he wants. I could be wrong on that. But I'll bet not.