Uzbekistan - Page 2

Undertoad · 05-02-2002, 01:18 PM

Wow. Thanks for the writeup... it sounds like an amazing experience.

I am awed by folks like yourself and HB and P.J. O'Rourke and Christiane Amanpour and Ted Rall and anyone else who will go off into the more foreign lands.

Are they mostly Muslims there? Do they have free markets?

05-02-2002, 01:35 PM

So how was the food?

sapienza · 05-02-2002, 01:40 PM

The country is primarily Muslim, yeah. Figures I've seen say that it's close to 90+%. Most of the Uzbeks I talked to were Muslim as well.

BUT ... not Muslim like we usually think here in the states. In fact, I think you could easily describe most of them (at least in the city) as Jack Muslims (like Jack Mormons). I've never seen shorter skirts than I saw in Tashkent. They drink like it's going out of style. Pork wasn't a big taboo, or at least didn't seem like it. I also saw very few women covered up. Perhaps two while I was there.

In the country, I imagine they are more strictly muslim, but it 's hard for me to say.

The country likes to brag that it is open to diverse religions, and that there are Christians and Buddhists and Muslims and Orthodox Russians all living there in harmony, when in fact the truth is that all religions aren't equally free, they're just equally repressed. The government seems to operate with religions in the manner of "don't do anything stupid, keep a low profile, and no matter WHAT, do NOT undermine our authority or you'll suddenly find yourself illegal."

In fact, Tashkent had a rash of car bombings in 1998 that nearly killed the president. These bombings were blamed on Muslim extremists from Tadjikistan who were trying to bring back a muslim state, and that led to a great crackdown on islam. Today, prayer call is not allowed in public. People can go to mosques to pray, but you don't hear it being yelled over loudspeakers.

Also regarding Tadjk rebels, that has led to a few interesting biases. I'm a Unix guy, so you can imagine basically what I look like. Hair in a short ponytail, beard. At one point I was told that I should shave my beard because "only Tadjik rebels wear beards." I did get my fair share of odd looks while walking through the city. We took the Lonely Planet guide book with us when we went, and it actually said in there that seatbelts are frowned upon and people suspect you of being a Tadjik rebel for that, too.

Which is a shame, because if there's ever a city whose driving style would warrant seatbelts, it's Tashkent.

Regarding the free market, their markets are ... well, *mostly* free. Sorta free. Kinda, in a way.

They claim to have free markets. The entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking. People set up kiosks -- or just card tables -- every on the streets to sell things. Beer, cigarettes, books, tape players, casettes, food, super glue. Pretty much anything you might need.

Business can be owned by private owners, but the government is really not very kind on them. Through taxation and other pressure it actually becomes less hassle for a business owner to register 5 or 6 businesses with the governemnt than just one. Which in turn leads the government to turn around to foreign investors and say "look at how many businesses were started here this year!" and give a number that's inflated by 400+%.

The reason people own multiple businesses is because they are not allowed to have more than [it's a number I forget, but very low, so I think my next number will be a good estimate] 10$ of the national current (the sum, current exchange rate 1500:1$) on hand at the end of a business day. Everything else must be banked.

So a business owner will instead use the other businesses as a way to launder their own money. Do a 2 or 3 day transaction of exchanging cash with yourself and you can keep the extra money. It's rather confusing and it was explained to me while I was somewhat intoxicated, so I don't really fully understand. But the gist is that the government isn't really nice to business owners. It tolerates them.

Regarding foreign investment, the Uzbeks have shot themselves in the foot. A few years ago they were so demanding of "tribute" and bribes and they made life so hard for companies that about 90% of the foreign companies investing in the country pulled out.

I talked to a guy who was working in Kazakhstan at the time and he told me that on one flight he was on that was landing in Tashkent, there were about 30 comptrollers for international companies that were flying in specifically to close up their Uzbek operations and pull out all funding and money.

Nowadays, the only big companies there are Nestle, a tobacco comp I have forgotten, Daewoo and ... well, not many others.

Daewoo has invested the most in the country and there is a huge auto manufacturing plant in ... forgot the town name ..., but due to the deal Uzbekistan forced them to sign, none of the cars Daewoo makes in Uzbekistan can be sold outside of Uzbekistan! It's a very limited market and Daewoo will profit in the short term but probably end up pulling out soon enough, too.

In other sectors, many things are still not privatized. Farms, mining, etc. These are still state run.

So, it's sort of a free market. People can buy things, and availability isn't bad at all. No lines, no empty shelves. The problem is most folks earn about 30$ a month and can't entirely afford to buy many extra goodies.

sapienza

sapienza · 05-02-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
So how was the food?

I hate you, dhamsaic.

sapienza

Hubris Boy · 05-02-2002, 05:59 PM

Hey! Welcome back! Glad to hear that you not only survived, but thrived!

Didja bring back any good pictures? Why not post the best ones in IotD... or somewhere else. (Photoshop Sapienza guzzling Cipro!)

Griff · 05-14-2002, 08:12 AM

Wow! What a great experience. Did the local yogurt aid digestion or was it a problem in itself? Very cool. I second Hubris... pictures man.

thebecoming · 06-05-2002, 11:21 AM

My americanized stomach recoils in horror of drinking goat-milk yogurt as a dinner chaser.
Was their any fast food companies from the great satan present?.
I thought companies like McDonalds would at least try to gain a share in their market.

05-14-2002, 08:12 AM	#21
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	You Rock Wow! What a great experience. Did the local yogurt aid digestion or was it a problem in itself? Very cool. I second Hubris... pictures man. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

06-05-2002, 11:21 AM	#22
thebecoming Drawn Druid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: wisconsin Posts: 32	My americanized stomach recoils in horror of drinking goat-milk yogurt as a dinner chaser. Was their any fast food companies from the great satan present?. I thought companies like McDonalds would at least try to gain a share in their market. __________________ Fear profits man nothing, though you may go hide in a hole if you wish.

05-02-2002, 01:18 PM	#16
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Wow. Thanks for the writeup... it sounds like an amazing experience. I am awed by folks like yourself and HB and P.J. O'Rourke and Christiane Amanpour and Ted Rall and anyone else who will go off into the more foreign lands. Are they mostly Muslims there? Do they have free markets?

05-02-2002, 01:35 PM	#17
dave Guest Posts: n/a	So how was the food?

05-02-2002, 01:40 PM	#18
sapienza Resident Denizen Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 61	The country is primarily Muslim, yeah. Figures I've seen say that it's close to 90+%. Most of the Uzbeks I talked to were Muslim as well. BUT ... not Muslim like we usually think here in the states. In fact, I think you could easily describe most of them (at least in the city) as Jack Muslims (like Jack Mormons). I've never seen shorter skirts than I saw in Tashkent. They drink like it's going out of style. Pork wasn't a big taboo, or at least didn't seem like it. I also saw very few women covered up. Perhaps two while I was there. In the country, I imagine they are more strictly muslim, but it 's hard for me to say. The country likes to brag that it is open to diverse religions, and that there are Christians and Buddhists and Muslims and Orthodox Russians all living there in harmony, when in fact the truth is that all religions aren't equally free, they're just equally repressed. The government seems to operate with religions in the manner of "don't do anything stupid, keep a low profile, and no matter WHAT, do NOT undermine our authority or you'll suddenly find yourself illegal." In fact, Tashkent had a rash of car bombings in 1998 that nearly killed the president. These bombings were blamed on Muslim extremists from Tadjikistan who were trying to bring back a muslim state, and that led to a great crackdown on islam. Today, prayer call is not allowed in public. People can go to mosques to pray, but you don't hear it being yelled over loudspeakers. Also regarding Tadjk rebels, that has led to a few interesting biases. I'm a Unix guy, so you can imagine basically what I look like. Hair in a short ponytail, beard. At one point I was told that I should shave my beard because "only Tadjik rebels wear beards." I did get my fair share of odd looks while walking through the city. We took the Lonely Planet guide book with us when we went, and it actually said in there that seatbelts are frowned upon and people suspect you of being a Tadjik rebel for that, too. Which is a shame, because if there's ever a city whose driving style would warrant seatbelts, it's Tashkent. Regarding the free market, their markets are ... well, mostly free. Sorta free. Kinda, in a way. They claim to have free markets. The entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking. People set up kiosks -- or just card tables -- every on the streets to sell things. Beer, cigarettes, books, tape players, casettes, food, super glue. Pretty much anything you might need. Business can be owned by private owners, but the government is really not very kind on them. Through taxation and other pressure it actually becomes less hassle for a business owner to register 5 or 6 businesses with the governemnt than just one. Which in turn leads the government to turn around to foreign investors and say "look at how many businesses were started here this year!" and give a number that's inflated by 400+%. The reason people own multiple businesses is because they are not allowed to have more than [it's a number I forget, but very low, so I think my next number will be a good estimate] 10$ of the national current (the sum, current exchange rate 1500:1$) on hand at the end of a business day. Everything else must be banked. So a business owner will instead use the other businesses as a way to launder their own money. Do a 2 or 3 day transaction of exchanging cash with yourself and you can keep the extra money. It's rather confusing and it was explained to me while I was somewhat intoxicated, so I don't really fully understand. But the gist is that the government isn't really nice to business owners. It tolerates them. Regarding foreign investment, the Uzbeks have shot themselves in the foot. A few years ago they were so demanding of "tribute" and bribes and they made life so hard for companies that about 90% of the foreign companies investing in the country pulled out. I talked to a guy who was working in Kazakhstan at the time and he told me that on one flight he was on that was landing in Tashkent, there were about 30 comptrollers for international companies that were flying in specifically to close up their Uzbek operations and pull out all funding and money. Nowadays, the only big companies there are Nestle, a tobacco comp I have forgotten, Daewoo and ... well, not many others. Daewoo has invested the most in the country and there is a huge auto manufacturing plant in ... forgot the town name ..., but due to the deal Uzbekistan forced them to sign, none of the cars Daewoo makes in Uzbekistan can be sold outside of Uzbekistan! It's a very limited market and Daewoo will profit in the short term but probably end up pulling out soon enough, too. In other sectors, many things are still not privatized. Farms, mining, etc. These are still state run. So, it's sort of a free market. People can buy things, and availability isn't bad at all. No lines, no empty shelves. The problem is most folks earn about 30$ a month and can't entirely afford to buy many extra goodies. sapienza

05-02-2002, 05:59 PM	#20
Hubris Boy Keymaster of Gozer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Patapsco Drainage Basin Posts: 471	Hey! Welcome back! Glad to hear that you not only survived, but thrived! Didja bring back any good pictures? Why not post the best ones in IotD... or somewhere else. (Photoshop Sapienza guzzling Cipro!)

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