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Old 12-16-2012, 02:22 AM   #91
Adak
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Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
From this, it follows that all conservatives are "true" facists.

What other "true" terms shall we throw about ?
You can describe fascists as "true" ultra right wingers, on the political spectrum.

You can describe conservatives in the USA, as "true" proponents of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, as it was written - not as it's "interpreted" by the liberals.

Smaller federal government, more freedom and more responsibility for each citizen. Lower taxes, and lower spending.

Each party has the RINO's or DINO's: Republicans or Democrats In Name Only, so you have to watch out for them.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:38 AM   #92
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[quote=richlevy;843972]I must have missed the civil rights claim. Was there one? It's not in the article cited.

He has been charged with beastiality, which his attorney has announced they will be fighting as illegal as it violates Carlos's civil rights.

That's the announcement - but legal work has to be done before it can be filed.

Quote:

I love slippery slope arguments. Everyone makes them, for and against. Guns, abortion, you name it. I'm sure someone made the donkey argument in Loving v. Virginia, which struck down miscegenation laws against interracial marriage.

The point is that it always comes the the 'reasonable person' argument. That middle of the road man or woman who draws the line.

Adak, I'm pretty sure I know where you would have come down on Loving v. Virginia. The reason you don't say so now is the same reason no one else does - that what seemed radical, heretical, and against tradition to a large number of people turned out to be rational public policy.

Look at the 'biblical' justification by the segregationist judge ruling against the couple. The wave of ignorance coming off a man in a position of trust is terrifying.



We evolve, Adak. The reason Christians are not still burning people at the stake or in other ways acting as atrociously as some conservative Muslims is that 'liberal' forces as well as a few hundred years of internal bloodshed have acted upon the church. There is still ethnic strife involving Christian populations, but none of it is sanctioned. People evolve, religions evolve. Maybe at some point they will go too far, but I for one am glad that noone listened to the Adaks of the past who fought for tradition and belittled change.
That might be true for some people - my Bible says to love your neighbor, as yourself, to love your enemy, when they do you harm.

Mine never mentions this "burn them alive at the stake", so what you are calling "liberal" NOW, is really quite conservative with the original message of Jesus' teachings.

And what you are calling "conservative", in the days of the Inquisition and religious wars and laws, really were quite liberal, weren't they?

Because there is no torture recommendation in the Bible - that's something that some Liberals thought up, all on their own. They couldn't accept the real teachings of Christ - so they substituted in it's place, their own doctrine, of hate.

And now they want to substitute their own "living document" meanings for our Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

No thanks!! We've seen where that kind of thinking leads, before.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:52 AM   #93
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Re: Loving v Virginia:

Without any re-interpretation of this as a "living document", what does our Declaration of Independece ACTUALLY say?

Code:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men 
are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, 
Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
All that racial garbage was simply that - fear based garbage.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:48 AM   #94
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Well, to my reading, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" does seem to entail the right to shag donkeys, if you think it will make you happy. Who are we to say "no"?

Seriously, you can shoot animals and eat them; you can force-feed them and slaughter them; you can cage them and harvest eggs and milk; you can do medical experiments on them; in some cases you can shoot them just because you feel like shooting them; and if you own one, you can (humanely) put it to death at your whim.

But, you're not allowed to have sex with them.

Given all the things we can do, this isn't about animal rights.

There is *some* argument that there is a disease transmission risk, but that risk already exists with farms, pets and hunting. There's more risk from shagging humans. It's not about that.

I think the ban on bestiality really comes down to the vast majority of us going "eeeiiiuuwww!!" at the idea, and no-one wanting to be the one to speak against this.

That was pretty much the situation with homosexuality a few decades back.

So, lets face it. Some guy wants to shag his donkey? It's not my problem; at least, not in any way that justifies imprisoning him for it.

Can anyone give me a non-religious, non-emotional reason to think otherwise, that is consistent with all the other acts we allow towards animals?
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by ZenGum View Post
Seriously, you can shoot animals and eat them; you can force-feed them and slaughter them; you can cage them and harvest eggs and milk; you can do medical experiments on them; in some cases you can shoot them just because you feel like shooting them; and if you own one, you can (humanely) put it to death at your whim.
We do actually have laws against animal cruelty. And Jewish dietary laws demand humane slaughter. One argument against bestiality is the same as against human minors, the inability to give informed consent.

A goat may not want to have sex with Adak, but would be unable to adequately voices it's displeasure. On the other hand, most goats might love to have sex with Adak. He might be the rock star that all goats aspire to screw, with young goats scratching his picture on the floors of their stalls under the straw where their parents won't find it. But even when they mature, they would be as unable to acquiesce Adak's advances as their minority of brethren would be unable to voice their displeasure.

Placing some protections on animals that almost everyone acknowledges that we are allowed to slaughter and eat may seem inconsistent, but it is more of a protection for humans than it is for animals. Many serial killers start with animals. Think of cruelty to animals as a gateway drug to cruelty to humans. And sex with animals is considered cruelty to animals.

BTW, I should really apologize for using Adak as an example by insinuating his popularity with goats. Obviously this is not true. Goats have no affinity for Adak.



But his Q rating with cows and horses is absolutely off the charts.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:12 PM   #96
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You do make a sane point about cruelty.

That might apply to smaller animals like chickens, but surely not to donkeys. Have you seen the size of a donkey's wang? You think a human wang is going to hurt a lady donkey? HAH!
And even so, is this any crueller than things that are already legal, such as branding cattle, de-beaking hens, etc?

Informed consent? Do we require informed consent from racehorses?

Ability to refuse? Well, you've got me there. From now on, my position is that you're not allowed to shag any animal except horses, and even then, you must respect the principle that neigh means neigh.

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Old 12-16-2012, 06:08 PM   #97
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Oh and on the gateway act theory, again, that's false.

Yes, most psychopaths who are cruel to humans began by being cruel to animals, true.

Most heroin users began with alcohol, but it does not follow that most alcohol users end up on heroin.

So, do most goat rapers end up a human rapers? I don't know, but I can't assume that it is so.

Besides, if having sex with goats is illegal, only criminals will have sex with goats, and I don't think the goats deserve that.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:02 PM   #98
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this thread has gotten a whole lot better since I visited last.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:36 PM   #99
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Good news!

Tim Scott, the Tea Party supported Republican Representative, will be taking over Jim DeMint's seat, representing South Carolina.

Governor Nikki Haley will make the official announcement, later this week.

So the female Republican governor, nominated the Tea party supported black Republican representative from the state, to become the only black Senator in the country.

Leaving the liberals who have never learned that the Republican party was created to fight slavery in the first place, saying "Huh?"

Congratulations, Senator Tim Scott!
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #100
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Say a prayer for all the victims of the school shooting in Connecticut, please.

You can see the result of having a gun law to keep guns away from those with murderous intent. By law, the shooter couldn't have a gun in Connecticut (he was 1 year too young).

And where did the shooter go to do his killings? The gun free zone in Newtown, of course.

Gun free zones are magnets for people with (mass) murderous intent. They're evil, not stupid. They don't want people shooting back at them. The police will respond in 5 to 10 minutes (generally), but that's too late.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Adak View Post
Good news!

Tim Scott, the Tea Party supported Republican Representative, will be taking over Jim DeMint's seat, representing South Carolina.




But what's his position on bestiality?





yeah, I know ... doggy.
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Last edited by ZenGum; 12-17-2012 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Quote inserted to clarify post relations.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Adak View Post
Say a prayer for all the victims of the school shooting in Connecticut, please.

You can see the result of having a gun law to keep guns away from those with murderous intent. By law, the shooter couldn't have a gun in Connecticut (he was 1 year too young).

And where did the shooter go to do his killings? The gun free zone in Newtown, of course.

Gun free zones are magnets for people with (mass) murderous intent. They're evil, not stupid. They don't want people shooting back at them. The police will respond in 5 to 10 minutes (generally), but that's too late.
You know, we've got the "guns don't kill people..." thread for that. Your contributions would be more effective if you put them in relevant threads.

Peace, out.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:18 AM   #103
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If the Democrats bring it up - as they have this week - then my comments on it will be in this thread.

On the fiscal cliff negotiations, we appear to have made some progress. No specifics being given yet, however. Probably just as well, I'm not close enough to the Pepto Bismol to readily tolerate the lack of actual spending cuts.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:15 AM   #104
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okay it's two AM and I can't be bothered to quote, link to, and comment on this Daily Kos piece so here is a screenshot of the article, google a quoted chunk of it to find the original post if you need it or want to watch the video

Name:  Screen Shot 2012-12-22 at 2.12.54 AM.jpg
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:08 AM   #105
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On the Fiscal Cliff:
==============

Not much progress this week on avoiding the fiscal cliff. Obama will get what he wants - higher taxes - either way, so he can't lose in the tax "gift" he wants, from Santa.

Whether he'll like the other "gifts" the fiscal cliff bring with it, is hard to say. He can blame it all on the Republicans, and he's had a lot of success playing the "blame game", but when the public gets sick and tired of hearing it, there will be a backlash on this one.

Still, we have no evidence of any spending cuts put into place yet, by the Democrats.

Perhaps by the next Ice Age, a cut or two will be forthcoming - who knows.

I see gun rights are being threatened again, in full throat, after the Newtown massacre.

We hear supposedly intelligent leaders, saying nonsense like:

We've got to take guns away from people.

We've got to change the Constitution, and drop the second amendment.

We've got to remove military style weapons from people.

etc.

No we don't!

First, "military style" weapons are not to be confused with "military" weapons. There are no military guns sold to the public. (unless you're a licensed dealer it's illegal to possess them or to sell them, to anyone, anywhere) - and these weapons sell for thousands of dollars, each. These are fully automatic capable firearms, and have better ability to handle the high heat that full auto firing, brings with it.

So what IS a "military style" weapon? It's a regular semi-automatic firearm that has been PAINTED or colored, or shaped to look like, a military weapon. It might just have a hole cut in the stock, for your thumb to go into, when you fire it.

It's like you painted your car to look like a formula 1 race car - and now you get speeding tickets while the car is still parked at the curb.


What IS an assault weapon? That's any weapon that has been used for assaulting an enemy position. What it seems to be today, is any carbine (a short rifle), and a semi-automatic. We've had carbines since firearms were first made, because they were much easier to carry on horseback, than the standard long rifle.

Both sides used carbines for their cavalry in the Civil War for instance, they were used by the cavalry troops in the Indian wars, and by both sides in both World Wars, of course. They are preferred for hunting (in thick brush), and in close street fighting, in war. They were not always semi-automatic, of course.

The AK-47 and AR-15 are both carbines. Note that they are LESS POWERFUL than the EXACT SAME bullet, fired from a standard length hunting rifle. Shorter barrel means less speed on the bullet, as it leaves the rifle. Less speed means less power, and a shorter range.

In Newtown, the mother of the killer, used to take her mentally disturbed son with her, to the range. She taught him to shoot! She also showed him where the guns were stored, and how to get them out.

Oh Brilliant!!

The best suggestions I've heard to help prevent another school massacre are:

1) Harden the schools. Right now, schools are designed for easy access by students and teachers. That alone, makes them easy targets. Lots of specifics can be done, without making the school a "prison".

2) Encourage one or two responsible administrators, to get trained and concealed carry permits. Just like detectives and secret service, and P.I's - no gun showing, but it's there.

Teachers won't be good for this, because they won't want to wear the holster, and the pistol will wind up in a desk drawer (typically unsecured), and a student will be able to access it.

3) Firearms should be removed from a home with a schizophrenic/paranoid type individual, in it. Perhaps a single revolver would be OK, with just a few bullets - not semi-automatics, and not a lot of ammo.

4) Mentally disturbed persons should not be taught to use firearms, and should not be allowed at the range. If Mom wants to have shooting fun with her disturbed son, she can get any number of air guns, nerf guns, water guns, or even paint -pellet guns, and have a blast. Real guns? No!

The utterly ridiculous suggestions to remove guns from cities/schools/theaters, etc. shows a complete lack of how criminals with guns, think.

They don't CARE about the gun LAWS. They're not going to obey them! They WANT to shoot people who are unarmed, in large groups, and who can't get away quickly.

Removing guns from law abiding people, means turning people into Sheep-people, and that's just what the wolf dreams about, isn't it?

I note with interest that CA Senator Dianne Feinstein has again spoken out in favor of gun control.

Quite the hypocrite Senator, since YOU HAVE A CONCEALED gun CARRY PERMIT, yourself!
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