Global Warmists back off on prediction - Page 10

Flint · 05-31-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

...There are folks who oppose wind power because of the bird blender effect...

You cannot support Wind Power without consciously accepting the reality of innocent bird deaths!!! :::head explodes:::

Griff · 05-31-2007, 10:41 AM

I prefer to think of bird blenders as a potential cheap source of protein.

Flint · 05-31-2007, 10:42 AM

Ahhh...synergy! We collect the "processed" birds for use as cat food!

HungLikeJesus · 05-31-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

You cannot support Wind Power without consciously accepting the reality of innocent bird deaths!!! :::head explodes:::

I am, right now, working on a (top secret) wind farm perimeter security system, which will completely eliminate bird deaths from wind turbines.

It consists of a series of high-powered lasers that will detect and instantly fry any bird that tries to enter the wind farm's air space.

Now I just need a clever name, like Clear Skies Initiative.

glatt · 05-31-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

There are folks who oppose wind power because of the bird blender effect...

I think most people who oppose wind power just don't want the ugly windmills in their back yard. They use the birds as a "reason," but really it's simple NIMBYism. Can't say I blame them. I wouldn't want them in my view either if they can go somewhere else instead.

Griff · 05-31-2007, 12:21 PM

I'd say that you're right on the NIMBY deal. I think windmills are beautiful in form and function, powerlines are another story though.

Happy Monkey · 05-31-2007, 01:52 PM

A good site I just ran across. It is squarely against global warming skeptics, but each question and answer page allows comments, so the skeptics can try to pick holes in the argument.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-31-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

A good site I just ran across. It is squarely against global warming skeptics, but each question and answer page allows comments, so the skeptics can try to pick holes in the argument.

What is a Global Warming Skeptic? Anyone that doesn't buy Gore's Dog & Pony show?
I don't think the arguments on that page are particularly strong. There's a lot of vague references and generalizations although it might work on Grandma if she trusted the person telling her. Anyone with real skepticism would need much more than I see there.

I was looking at some Ariel photos of Europe and noticed this caption under a picture of an Airbus field in France.

HungLikeJesus · 05-31-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What is a Global Warming Skeptic? Anyone that doesn't buy Gore's Dog & Pony show?
I don't think the arguments on that page are particularly strong. There's a lot of vague references and generalizations although it might work on Grandma if she trusted the person telling her. Anyone with real skepticism would need much more than I see there.

I was looking at some Ariel photos of Europe and noticed this caption under a picture of an Airbus field in France.

Ariel? Is that the part around the nipple?

xoxoxoBruce · 05-31-2007, 08:14 PM

Spelling Nazi.

Aliantha · 05-31-2007, 10:17 PM

The other problems with wind farms (over here) is the high price landowners are paid for the lease on their land. This causes reverse NIMBYism problems.

You really just can't win when you're trying to save the world.

tw, you're trying to make it seem like I've said something I didn't. you just go your own way with your rant matey.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-31-2007, 10:23 PM

Not what you said, what you didn't say.

TheMercenary · 06-01-2007, 02:14 PM

Wind Farms and Birds:

http://www.celsias.com/blog/2007/03/...ered-wildlife/

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...more_letha.php

Aliantha · 06-01-2007, 11:16 PM

Yes well, it's very unfortunate that birds are killed because of windfarming. I don't know what the answer is, and I don't think anyone else does either.

The fact remains that it's a technology which works and is relatively inexpensive to run once it's set up.

Reconciling the cost to wildlife against the benefits to humans is difficult in all such situations however in this case, I believe the cost is not as high as that which will be paid if we don't explore this technology.

HungLikeJesus · 06-02-2007, 10:22 AM

As one of the articles TheMercenary linked to said, there are many human-related bird deaths due to other factors, such as tall buildings, windows, cats and cell towers. To put things into perspective, here are some statistics from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Some numbers:
Building window strikes: 97 to 976 million/yr
Communication tower strikes: 4 to 40 million/yr
Cars: 60 million/yr
Cats: hundreds of millions/yr

Another source said "According to the Bird Conservancy, the 15 000 existing US wind turbines kill 10 000 to 40 000 birds per year, which compares with 50 million US bird deaths per year due to transmission towers and 200 million worldwide due to avian flu in 2005. Extrapolating to 5 million 5-MW turbines needed to satisfy all electric power and energy needs worldwide gives 3 million to 13 million bird deaths per year, much less than transmission towers in the US alone."

There is obviously a lot of uncertainty in the numbers, but if people are truly concerned about bird deaths they would get rid of their cats, their cars and their cell phones.

05-31-2007, 10:41 AM	#137
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I prefer to think of bird blenders as a potential cheap source of protein. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-31-2007, 10:42 AM	#138
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Ahhh...synergy! We collect the "processed" birds for use as cat food! __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

05-31-2007, 12:21 PM	#141
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I'd say that you're right on the NIMBY deal. I think windmills are beautiful in form and function, powerlines are another story though. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-31-2007, 01:52 PM	#142
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	A good site I just ran across. It is squarely against global warming skeptics, but each question and answer page allows comments, so the skeptics can try to pick holes in the argument. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

05-31-2007, 08:14 PM	#145
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Spelling Nazi. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-31-2007, 10:17 PM	#146
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	The other problems with wind farms (over here) is the high price landowners are paid for the lease on their land. This causes reverse NIMBYism problems. You really just can't win when you're trying to save the world. tw, you're trying to make it seem like I've said something I didn't. you just go your own way with your rant matey. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

05-31-2007, 10:23 PM	#147
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Not what you said, what you didn't say. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-01-2007, 02:14 PM	#148
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Wind Farms and Birds: http://www.celsias.com/blog/2007/03/...ered-wildlife/ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...more_letha.php __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

06-01-2007, 11:16 PM	#149
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Yes well, it's very unfortunate that birds are killed because of windfarming. I don't know what the answer is, and I don't think anyone else does either. The fact remains that it's a technology which works and is relatively inexpensive to run once it's set up. Reconciling the cost to wildlife against the benefits to humans is difficult in all such situations however in this case, I believe the cost is not as high as that which will be paid if we don't explore this technology. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-02-2007, 10:22 AM	#150
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	As one of the articles TheMercenary linked to said, there are many human-related bird deaths due to other factors, such as tall buildings, windows, cats and cell towers. To put things into perspective, here are some statistics from the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Some numbers: Building window strikes: 97 to 976 million/yr Communication tower strikes: 4 to 40 million/yr Cars: 60 million/yr Cats: hundreds of millions/yr Another source said "According to the Bird Conservancy, the 15 000 existing US wind turbines kill 10 000 to 40 000 birds per year, which compares with 50 million US bird deaths per year due to transmission towers and 200 million worldwide due to avian flu in 2005. Extrapolating to 5 million 5-MW turbines needed to satisfy all electric power and energy needs worldwide gives 3 million to 13 million bird deaths per year, much less than transmission towers in the US alone." There is obviously a lot of uncertainty in the numbers, but if people are truly concerned about bird deaths they would get rid of their cats, their cars and their cell phones. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

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