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Old 04-26-2012, 12:19 PM   #1576
BigV
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Quote:
"Hahaha, ladies, I'm just playin' ladies, you know I love you."
People say the craziest shit, don't they?

I have said I don't believe there's been a crime committed here, I still believe that. But as Dana and others have said, there's another standard here, our community standard. It is clear that JBK's statement has violated that standard, despite the fact that that standard is subjective and not explicitly published anywhere. It is the standard that we dwellars carry inside ourselves each day. It's not static, it's not identical from one dwellar to another, but it is real.

I find his remark offensive. Others find his remark offensive. I have a problem with talk like that and so do many others. That problem needs solving, needs correction, needs addressing. Here in the cellar, we have very few explicit rules of conduct, and we have very few definite measures to enforce those rules. Though I find his remarks unacceptable, banning him for that remark is the wrong response to that problem. Banning is the wrong tool for this job.

Banning is our most severe response to misbehavior. Misbehavior is not a great term, it sounds much too mild, but I won't use other terms I know are incorrect like "criminal behavior". We have reserved banning for self protection of the cellar itself, for violation of our (few) rules, it is the capital punishment of our code. Since JBK's remarks and actions have not violated our written rules, he should not be subject to this consequence. He *has* violated other "rules" though, he should be subject to other consequences. We have other responses available to us. Most powerful and most effective is open communication among ourselves, including JBK (ironically the exact opposite of banning). It is good that this is happening.

There are other responses available too, like ignoring, formally via the ignore function and informally by just not responding. We do this all the time too, we've got a phrase for it "don't feed the troll" (though JBK isn't trolling in my opinion). This is very effective and may well be in place for individual dwellars. This kind of shunning has the advantages of being very fine grained for the cellar as a whole and for individuals. Some can do it and others can refrain, one can do it sometimes and sometimes not. It's reusable, it's discreet and discrete.

Mocking and shunning are group responses like discussion and ignoring and they can also be effective. I see some of both of these happening here. All these other responses, short of banning are better tools for this problem. I like discussion (no surprise there). And I would like to continue the discussion. What has JBK done? What should be our response? What should JBK's response be? Some things are already established--his remark(s) are offensive and his remarks are not criminal. What now?
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:24 PM   #1577
infinite monkey
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What now? I'll tell you what now. I'm gonna call a couple of hard-pipe hittin' n*ggas to go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow-torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy?! I ain't through with you by a damn sight! I'ma get medieval on your ass!
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:25 PM   #1578
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'Shunning' makes me giggle. Maybe JBK will learn something during Rumspringa.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:31 PM   #1579
BigV
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... Stacy Adams...
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Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. -- Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)

Last edited by BigV; 04-26-2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: corrected the spelling of the shoe company name
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:32 PM   #1580
infinite monkey
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Um. A shoe company?
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:38 PM   #1581
BigV
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Awww... you don't remember his proud reply to the compliments made about his shoes?
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Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. -- Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #1582
infinite monkey
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I'm sorry. Marcellus?

Thought I had the movie rememberized.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:47 PM   #1583
Undertoad
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Right Bigs.

I would add that there's nothing inherent about the Cellar that suggests one or all will be protected from offensive speech.

I am offended by JB's statements. I'm a little less offended that the immediate response was to call to remove him on the basis that his point of view was offensive, or even, did not respect our particular group-think. The guy is self-contained here. He is easily disregarded. It's not like he's even participating all over the place; he's mostly in his own shitty threads. And everyone kinda knows his deal.

In the tavern analogy, he's like a half-crazy guy ranting at his own table. He's not actually hurting anyone and he's not disrupting the other tables. It's not like he's gonna recruit sensible people to his point of view. Maybe the better question is whether we are therapeutic. I don't know.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:11 PM   #1584
classicman
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Quote:
...our community standard. It is clear that JBK's statement has violated that standard,
Yup
Quote:
I find his remark offensive. Others find his remark offensive. ~~Though I find his remarks unacceptable, banning him for that remark is the wrong response to that problem.
Nope. I think the temporary ban has worked well. I think a "time-out" in this case is absolutely acceptable and probably the only real option... say for a month.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #1585
toranokaze
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I find JB's remarks offensive in every way possible and gives a bad name to both country and faith.

I have seen the ban hammer drop for less. However, this is one very offense and feels very off the cuff remark.

His words and actions need to have consequences.

A temp ban is in order( to agreeing with the group shutter). Perhaps he will learn from this and we can help him from this dark place, for I would rather see his comments quench and condemned rather and being ignore and allowed to fester.

he needs real help I hope he finds it.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:58 PM   #1586
Gravdigr
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I have a suggestion:

A lot of Dwellars want JB banned, permanently or temporarily. JB appeared (I think) at one point or another seemed to somewhat show remorse for some of the things he has said.

How about we satisfy the Dwellars (somewhat), while at the same time allowing JB to 'face the music', so-to-speak:

A voluntary, self-imposed temporary ban of 15-30 days.

What do ya think?



ETA: Just thinkin' aloud, mind you...
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:04 PM   #1587
infinite monkey
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Ask me again next week, please.

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Old 04-27-2012, 04:40 PM   #1588
DanaC
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I think the moment has very much passed for any action of that nature. Best to let it lie now and hope that he refrains in future.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:00 PM   #1589
BigV
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I have a question about this site.

Why did this happen?

Name:  cellar.org-3.jpg
Views: 91
Size:  69.7 KB

I repeated the same steps (in the humor thread) with a different image in the post following and it displayed as an image, as expected. I then made a third post using the original image and it also displayed as an image, as expected. But that first one shows up like this image (probably still there like that). Why I wonder.
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Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. -- Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #1590
Rhianne
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