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Old 04-28-2006, 08:32 AM   #31
Undertoad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Steady
What I am saying is that people with CO dependency to thru these Rehab programs that Enable Tobacco. And that is wrong. Are you at all with me?
Well no, partly because that first sentence needs to be put out of its misery.

But um what's all this on the other thread? Your defense here is gender- rather than logic-based huh? Girls stick up for each other! And they are all victims! Victimhood is what it's all about, because girls are weak and rather defenseless, as we know, and mean men attack them and that's just wrong by default.

We're all in rehab now, and everything is about rehab. Play that victim card hard, even when it's about someone not in rehab! Everything is about recovery, even if you are making yourself sicker and need more rehab by doing it.

BTW Mar, weed does not kill brain cells at all. It temporarily overwhelms anandamide receptors by mimicking a chemical in the neocortex. I urge anyone who takes a drug, recreational, pharmaceutical or whatever, to fully understand how it works before taking it.
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Old 04-28-2006, 09:05 AM   #32
Beestie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
BTW Mar, weed does not kill brain cells at all. It temporarily overwhelms anandamide receptors by mimicking a chemical in the neocortex. I urge anyone who takes a drug, recreational, pharmaceutical or whatever, to fully understand how it works before taking it.
You saved me the trouble. Besides, folks who smoke pot tend to smoke somewhat less than 40 joints per week..
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:01 AM   #33
marichiko
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Long-Term Effects of Marijuana Use

Respiratory System Damage

Daily cough.
Chronic bronchitis.
More frequent chest colds.
Injured lung structures.
Pneumonia.
Increased risk of lung or oral cancer – Marijuana deposits in the lungs roughly five times as much tar as tobacco and contains nearly 50% more of the cancer-causing chemical benzopyrene than the average tobacco cigarette.
Immune System Damage

Causes damage to the cells and tissues that protect the body from disease.
Users are more likely to become ill.
Reproductive System Damage

Decreased sperm count.
Abnormal sperm cells.
Decreased production of estrogen.
Menstrual or ovulatory irregularities.
Danger During Pregnancy

May affect good functioning of the mother’s immune system.
Increased miscarriage rate.
Possible brain damage in the fetus.
Lower birth weight, which is associated with more health problems.
THC can be passed to a baby in breast milk, which can impair the infant's motor development (control of muscle movement).
Emotional Damage

Amotivational syndrome is the most common side effect of long-term marijuana use. Marijuana users:
Lose interest in setting and achieving goals.
Stop caring about things that used to be important to them.
Neglect school, work, chores, personal health, and their relationships.
It can take up to 2 years of abstinence to regain a normal motivation level.
More delinquent behavior and aggression
Intellectual Damage

Permanent damage to thinking and reasoning ability.
Difficulty sustaining attention.
Psychological Addiction

Increasing tolerance -- Users need increasing amounts of marijuana to feel its effects.
Many users develop compulsive drug craving and drug seeking.
Abusers continue to use marijuana despite negative consequences in their lives.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:09 AM   #34
Undertoad
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Like I suggested, I fully understand. Now post about the effects of CO on hemoglobins.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:31 AM   #35
lumberjim
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detrimental effects of straw man arguments:

  • people think you're a dick
  • you lose the argument by forfiet
  • people stop reading your posts beacuse they're BS
  • you admit that you have no real argument
  • you make me tired
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Old 04-28-2006, 12:03 PM   #36
Beestie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marichiko
[Marichiko quotes people who lie and cheat]
You know, if you could find a job digging up huge, steaming piles of colossally fictitious internet bullshit to support whatever erroneous self-serving position you take on an issue, you'd have Bill Gates washing your car while Warren Buffet cuts your grass.

I mean, I might sling the occasional bovine turd now and then but you move sub-human excrement on a scale that makes even the seven wonders of the ancient world seem pithy by comparison.
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Old 04-28-2006, 12:21 PM   #37
marichiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beestie
I'm fine with playing holier than thou when posting about someone's else's use of a legal substance, but I start slinging shit if the safety of my own illegal drug of choice is called into question
My, my you boys shouldn't dish it out if you can't take it. Any drug a person smokes or ingests has possible side effects and health consequences. This includes pot, tobacco, crack, alcohol, etc., etc.

Calling me a liar because I point out the possible consequences of your fav drug of choice doesn't make those effects go away. It hardly makes your OWN argument more credible, either. Most people who smoke tobacco don't die of lung cancer. Some people die of lung cancer who never smoked in their lives. Most people who smoke pot recreationally run into no problems. Some do. We all choose our risks. And he who is without sin is welcome to cast the first stone.
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Old 04-28-2006, 12:49 PM   #38
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From famed shit purveyers, the New Scientist and that respected journal of scatology, Neurology:

Quote:
Long-term users of marijuana gradually become worse at learning and remembering things, a new study suggests.

“It definitely fogs your brain,” says Lambros Messinis, who led the study at the University Hospital of Patras in Greece.

Messinis and colleagues tested the mental abilities of 20 long-term users who had taken marijuana heavily – smoking at least four joints a week – for an average of 15 years. Their brains were rustier than those of 20 short-term users – who had averaged seven years of use – and 24 controls who had used the drug sporadically or not at all.

Long-term users performed worse in tests to measure memory, learning ability and the capacity to recall information. Asked to recall lists of 15 words that they had seen earlier, for example, the long-term users averaged seven, compared with nine recalled by short-term users and 12 by controls.

“Long-term users found it very difficult to learn through new information given verbally,” says Messinis. “It’s not to do with lack of attention but more the encoding process of memory.” Separate tests to probe attention span found that long-term users were able to pick up information immediately, without trouble.

Initial ability
Although the study is retrospective – that is, the subjects were not tested on their cognitive abilities before they took up marijuana – the researchers are confident that the long-term users’ abilities were not significantly different from the other groups from the beginning. They used a standard test to estimate the long-term users’ original intellectual abilities.

Messinis gave subjects the tests at least 24 hours after they had last taken the drug, to make sure they were not still under the influence. “It wasn’t while they were high,” he says.

“Importantly, we don’t know if it’s reversible,” he says. To find out, he and his colleague plan to re-test the same subjects after abstinence periods of at least a month.

Nadia Solowij, at the University of Wollongong in Australia, says the new findings back previous work by her and colleagues, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2002.

“The authors appear to have used the same rigorous criteria for inclusion in their study and confirm that the duration of cannabis use progressively impacts upon cognitive functions,” she told New Scientist.
Journal reference: Neurology (vol 66, p 737)
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Old 04-28-2006, 12:52 PM   #39
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Which of our posters has a foggy brain and poor memory is left as an exercise for the reader.
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:03 PM   #40
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From the producers of shit at the National Traffic Safety Institute:

Quote:
Effects: Pharmacological effects of marijuana vary with dose, route of administration, experience of user, vulnerability to psychoactive effects, and setting of use.

Psychological: At recreational doses, effects include relaxation, euphoria, relaxed inhibitions, sense of well-being, disorientation, altered time and space perception, lack of concentration, impaired learning and memory, alterations in thought formation and expression, drowsiness, sedation, mood changes such as panic reactions and paranoia, and a more vivid sense of taste, sight, smell, and hearing. Stronger doses intensify reactions and may cause fluctuating emotions, flights of fragmentary thoughts with disturbed associations, a dulling of attention despite an illusion of heightened insight, image distortion, and psychosis.

Physiological: The most frequent effects include increased heart rate, reddening of the eyes, dry mouth and throat, increased appetite, and vasodilatation.

Side Effect Profile: Fatigue, paranoia, possible psychosis, memory problems, depersonalization, mood alterations, urinary retention, constipation, decreased motor coordination, lethargy, slurred speech, and dizziness. Impaired health including lung damage, behavioral changes, and reproductive, cardiovascular and immunological effects have been associated with regular marijuana use. Regular and chronic marijuana smokers may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have (daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis), as the amount of tar inhaled and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed by marijuana smokers is 3 to 5 times greater than among tobacco smokers. Smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.

Duration of Effects: Effects from smoking cannabis products are felt within minutes and reach their peak in 10-30 minutes. Typical marijuana smokers experience a high that lasts approximately 2 hours. Most behavioral and physiological effects return to baseline levels within 3-5 hours after drug use, although some investigators have demonstrated residual effects in specific behaviors up to 24 hours, such as complex divided attention tasks. Psychomotor impairment can persist after the perceived high has dissipated. In long term users, even after periods of abstinence, selective attention (ability to filter out irrelevant information) has been shown to be adversely affected with increasing duration of use, and speed of information processing has been shown to be impaired with increasing frequency of use. Dronabinol has an onset of 30-60 minutes, peak effects occur at 2-4 hours, and it can stimulate the appetite for up to 24 hours.

Tolerance, Dependence and Withdrawal Effect: Tolerance may develop to some pharmacological effects of dronabinol. Tolerance to many of the effects of marijuana may develop rapidly after only a few doses, but also disappears rapidly. Marijuana is addicting as it causes compulsive drug craving, seeking, and use, even in the face of negative health and social consequences. Additionally, animal studies suggests marijuana causes physical dependence. A withdrawal syndrome is commonly seen in chronic marijuana users following abrupt discontinuation. Symptoms include restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, hyperactivity, insomnia, nausea, cramping, decreased appetite, sweating, and increased dreaming...


Performance Effects: The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, difficultly in thinking and problem-solving, and loss of coordination. Heavy users may have increased difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing and using information. In general, laboratory performance studies indicate that sensory functions are not highly impaired, but perceptual functions are significantly affected. The ability to concentrate and maintain attention are decreased during marijuana use, and impairment of hand-eye coordination is dose-related over a wide range of dosages.Impairment in retention time and tracking, subjective sleepiness, distortion of time and distance, vigilance, and loss of coordination in divided attention tasks have been reported. Note however, that subjects can often “pull themselves together” to concentrate on simple tasks for brief periods of time. Significant performance impairments are usually observed for at least 1-2 hours following marijuana use, and residual effects have been reported up to 24 hours.

Effects on Driving: Epidemiology data from road traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations. Marijuana has been shown to impair performance on driving simulator tasks and on open and closed driving courses for up to approximately 3 hours. Decreased car handling performance, increased reaction times, impaired time and distance estimation, inability to maintain headway, lateral travel, subjective sleepiness, motor incoordination, and impaired sustained vigilance have all been reported. Some drivers may actually be able to improve performance for brief periods by overcompensating for self-perceived impairment. The greater the demands placed on the driver, however, the more critical the likely impairment. Marijuana may particularly impair monotonous and prolonged driving. Decision times to evaluate situations and determine appropriate responses increase. Mixing alcohol and marijuana may dramatically produce effects greater than either drug on its own.
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:06 PM   #41
marichiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
Which of our posters has a foggy brain and poor memory is left as an exercise for the reader.
Yes.

Now, if you gentlemen will excuse me, I'm going to go smoke an organic, premium tobacco cigarette and pack some boxes. Its been a pleasure, really.

Last edited by marichiko; 04-28-2006 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:52 PM   #42
Dagney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marichiko
Yes.

Now, if you gentlemen will excuse me, I'm going to go smoke an organic, premium tobacco cigarette and pack some boxes. Its been a pleasure, really.
You're welcome.

See, yanno, our TAX dollars bought that organic, premium tobacco cigarette.

Which, as I see it, is the actual reason people are annoyed. I know it simply cheeses my goat. I bust my ass and earn what I have, and frankly...if you ask me, if you can spend THIS much time here, you're more than capable of earning a respectable living. But well, I won't 'stress you out ' over that.

So here's my solution to your tax dollar (well, actually, they're my tax dollars) wasting nasty habit: Why don't I just send you the money directly, we can bypass the government you love to slam but can't live without, and you can light it, and there's no nasty second hand smoke to deal with?

Sounds like a plan to me.

And before you go saying that I have no room to talk because I don't live in Colorado, ALL state welfare programs have federal funding contributed to them.

And last I checked, Uncle Sam took a hefty chunk of my paycheck.
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:28 PM   #43
marichiko
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Sweetheart, your tax dollars don't pay for my cigarettes. I've been on SSDI NOT welfare. SSDI is for former disabled workers. I worked for over 30 years and paid the same hefty taxes you do. In addition, I am moving off SSDI thanks to help from Voc Rehab and the Ticket to Work Program. I am now working and earning money, doing some small writing gigs on the net. I notice any number of people who apparently have office jobs who post here as much or even more than I do.

Why don't I send you some money out of my next paycheck, to shut your yap? How's that?
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:39 PM   #44
Rock Steady
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UT, I'm sorry I pushed some of your buttons; I didn't intend that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
But um what's all this on the other thread? Your defense here is gender- rather than logic-based huh? Girls stick up for each other! And they are all victims! Victimhood is what it's all about, because girls are weak and rather defenseless, as we know, and mean men attack them and that's just wrong by default.
I've never been labeled as a feminazi before; that's a new one. I think you are right in that I have been trying to develop friendships with women both here and locally (ie, IRL). But, I don't think my arguments are gender-based, just my motivation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
Well no, partly because that first sentence needs to be put out of its misery.
No, that is just not right. "What I am saying is that people with CO dependency go thru these Rehab programs that Enable Tobacco." That is my direct experience after going thru a rehab program myself. You want to suppress my real life experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
We're all in rehab now, and everything is about rehab. Play that victim card hard, even when it's about someone not in rehab! Everything is about recovery, even if you are making yourself sicker and need more rehab by doing it.
No. I was critizing many Rehab Programs. No, recovery is about mutual accountability. Folks in AA/NA are always asking each other how much time they have (of being clean & sober).

I didn't say anything about Mari's particular situation. Rather, I made statements about the general situation, govt assistance and rehab programs.
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad
Which of our posters has a foggy brain and poor memory is left as an exercise for the reader.
All of our posters has a foggy brain and poor memory.
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