Do you believe in Reincarnation?

[DanaC]

Personally, I find the lack of a predefined purpose in life rather freeing.

Also, I don't like the notion that I might, upon death, find myself conscious in some as yet unknowable state. That's a scary as fuck thought. Good or bad, heaven or hell, that idea is not a fun one to me.

This is it, right here, for better or for worse, for as long or as little a stretch of time as I end up with. That I am comfortable with.

[Trilby]

You deny the Greatness that is the universe. I believe there are many of them, like a loaf of sliced bread; up against each other but maybe, just maybe touching. How to get there? Death?

[DanaC]

Incidentally: that's twice now someone has alluded to people who don't believe in reincarnation as only believing what their five senses tell them, of somehow thinking the world consists only of what those five senses find.

That's a hell of a leap.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Personally, I find the lack of a predefined purpose in life rather freeing.

Then whatever you do here is meaningless. Be Mother Theresa or be a war criminal (I didn't say Nazi!!) what on earth could possibly be the difference? Why be 'good'? Why not a free for all? What the fuck could possibly be the point of being here at all if not to try to make some tiny, good difference? if there's no purpose-----hell, hold up that quicky mart you've got your eye on.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Incidentally: that's twice now someone has alluded to people who don't believe in reincarnation as only believing what their five senses tell them, of somehow thinking the world consists only of what those five senses find.

That's a hell of a leap.

No; I meant-and probably said it poorly as I am not 'rational' at all, just ask my debtors-that you certainly don't have to believe in reincarnation as a substitute for the five senses. Just look up Plato's cave----maybe we are only seeing shadows of what is real. a Dream-like state almost.

I believe the soul has a meaningful path. That is different from what you believe. Okay. Looks like we won't find out till it's too late.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Trilby

You deny the Greatness that is the universe.

I would counter that it is your belief that does this. The universe is so unutterably marvellous I see no need to undermine its beauty with imaginary mechanics. It is truly magnificent. And the beliefs you espouse to me seem to shrink it down to a human size.

You and I were ultimately born in a star. And the essence of what we are, the energy that makes us and everything else on earth alive, will continue on. How is that not marvellous?

And there are all sorts of questions about what the universe is and has been and will be. Some of the questions being asked hint at things far stranger than the reincarnation model for our tiny lives.

[DanaC]

ha! Oh, Tril, I'm sorry if that offended you. I am in debate mode. I am really just enjoying the intellectual argument.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

You and I were ultimately born in a star. And the essence of what we are, the energy that makes us and everything else on earth alive, will continue on. How is that not marvellous?

I believe this.

and as far as shrinking it down to a human size---maybe that is all I can handle. It is, after all, my first time around. I don't want to be contentious but I don't want to be talked down to as if I'm a stupid child, either. i've spent a lot of time reading/learning/working on trying to figure things out. To pshaw me (UT) demeans me and thousands who think as I do (Hindu, anyone?) even Christ came back ffs! and I'm no Christian (though I do like what few things Jesus supposedly said)

The story of birth/death/re-birth is old and pagan. perhaps that is why derision is poured on it. If it's an old belief, than certainly it is a wrong belief.

[Trilby]

and maybe I am just sad.

[Lamplighter]

On a more cynical note:
Isn't worrying about reincarnation rather useless... a bit like today's politicians...

They don't do the jobs they were elected to do because they are too
busy doing the things they need to do to get re-elected. So then ...
They don't do the jobs they were elected to do because they are too
busy doing the things they need to do to get re-elected. So then ...
And so on and so forth ...

If you live your life now doing the job you believe you were put here to do,
there's no need to worry about if or how you come might around again.
...

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

On a more cynical note:
Isn't worrying about reincarnation rather useless... a bit like today's politicians...

They don't do the jobs they were elected to do because they are too
busy doing the things they need to do to get re-elected. So then ...
They don't do the jobs they were elected to do because they are too
busy doing the things they need to do to get re-elected. So then ...
And so on and so forth ...

If you live your life now doing the job you believe you were put here to do,
there's no need to worry about if or how you come might around again.
...

as I said, I'm just sad. Reincarnation is useless anyway as you don't recall your past life; it's just another round in the boxing ring and I don't intend on fighting again.


so. Ok. Done with this.

[infinite monkey]

I haven't given this thread quite the read-through it deserves, but I have a couple pennies I'd like to throw in.

I think we're 'energy.' Maybe not the sort of energy we typically recognize...I haven't gotten very far on this particular theory.

But we are created from energy and when we die that energy goes back to the grand scheme.

So it is possible, in my dumb brain, that where we die, where we give the energy back, or who we were, how did we use our energy, goes a long way into determining where that energy goes next...or to what form.

I've long said I want to just be thrown into a hole in the ground in the forest, or buried at sea...the nutrients from a body nourishing all the critters and plants...but my own personal energy that I borrowed for my time here, has gone to something, or someone, else. It's neither created nor destroyed. Then, in my dumb brain, it is also possible to have some idea, some vague notion, of where your energy has been...did you take part of your energy from this and part from that?

It's how I explain what people call 'old souls'; people who seem to understand and bear some of the weight of millions of years. There just might be an inclination to recover such energy memories, if the energy is an intuitive set that has evolved over the years.

Oh hell, I can't explain it. So it does sound dumb. And I'm sorry if I've repeated anything anyone said.

It's just what I believe. I don't necessarily believe in some supreme powers of good and evil, but I don't necessarily believe that we are here, then we're 'done.'

Living positively would seem to be more likely to send a more positive energy back into the universe.

But what the hell do I know?

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by regular.joe

Trill,

There seems to me to be two kinds of people in the world. Those who rely soley on their sense of intellect. They rely on their 5 senses and what they can observe with their 5 senses. Intellect and science refute all other belief systems and the rest of the population of the world, poor souls, are living in various worlds of delusion and fantasy.

The rest of humanity believe in other things. That there is more then our 5 senses and our intellectual ability to reduce what we see with our 5 senses to the only complete understanding of our world and existence. They believe we have more then 5 senses, for instance.

Both believe that what they believe is based on evidence, and investigation and most importantly their experience. It is very difficult to bring the two sets of people together for a sane conversation about matters such as reincarnation. Though a valiant effort on your part I think this topic is doomed to become an argument.

There are also two types of people, those who like Elton John and those who don't. This may lead to a more productive talk over your morning coffee with Cellar Dwellers. Oh, and though I have no experience with reincarnation, I would not discount the occurrence or possibility. My experience leads me to know that this universe is much more than a cipher rushing no where, and that we are more than $75.00 worth of chemicals.

'

Actually, science knows we have more than 5 senses. Just an interesting article on the subject:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19986...nowing-it.html

I know its cracked.com, but they have some good information.

[Undertoad]

Tril I think you should feel differently about this discussion.

People have generally attacked me for my belief system. It never bothers me! I want to hear their very best reasons for why my beliefs are wrong. If I can't justify my beliefs after hearing theirs, I have no other recourse but to change what I believe. I have done so, many times.

When I state my beliefs as clearly as possible, I am trying to help. When I dismiss things it's because I have examined them over and over and found them, personally, to be silly nonsense.

I believe in a lot of silly nonsense myself. We all do!

Generally, the way we have determined what is true and real is putting ideas through the scientific method. If something is observable and reproducible I find that makes a very strong case for believing in it. If not, I find that makes a very strong case for dismissing it.

But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[Trilby]

Being a liberal arts major and being terrified of mathematics of any and all kinds, YET WORKING in a scientific field where intuition meant nothing and empirical evidence was everything taught me that empirical evidence, the scientific method, is not infallible, does NOT tell the whole picture. I could look at machines that told me my patient was just fine, all vitals good, but something else would nag at me about him/her and I would not believe the science in front of me and I was usually RIGHT. My patient was a human, not a series of vital signs, family info, accident info, reports, etc. When I was diagnosed with stage III cancer I KNEW I wouldn't die. Women with lesser cancers and a whole lot more going for them did die. If Dana says I shrink the universe by saying it's this or that than you do, too; by saying it's got to be science or it's nothing. I believe there are other forces at work----forces that science doesn't dream of.

I'm sorry if i'm taking this all too personally. I'm wracked. I'm wrecked. There are many reasons for this, yes, Autumn is one, but there are others.

And to tell you the honest to godd truth, I feel very alone and sad today. Alone. I usually like 'alone' and am never lonely but now I am. Very lonely. And being maudlin, I suppose, doesn't help or endear me to anyone. i come here for solace too much. I need to engage with RL people because I am afraid I am too ingrown.
so. all apologies. I cannot compete with you or Dana when it comes to articulating arguments. Your both smarter; let's face that fact. I've no wish to impose my beliefs on anyone. Or argue them. Or, actually, do anything.