American Protestor killed in Gaza

03-17-2003, 12:46 PM

You've probably read or heard the news, but here's the gist of it:

23 year old American Rachel Corrie was protesting the demolition of a home in the Gaza strip. The demolition was, apparently, because Israel is creating a buffer zone (in other words, not because the home owner, who is a doctor, is a militant).

She's standing in front of the house and the bulldozer runs her over. She has, apparently, been there for some three hours, so it's not as if they didn't know she was there. You can read descriptions of it elsewhere.

Because I think it's important to remember these things, I've saved a picture of her, but it wouldn't be right to mislead you. It's not just a picture of her; it's a picture of her crushed head.

Here is a link to the picture.

I've noticed a rather calm reaction to her death. One wrote, and I agree, that if she had been killed by Iraqi soldiers, we would be at war already. Yet she was killed by an Israeli bulldozer, and while we've demanded a "full investigation" into the incident - whatever that means - we are not nearly as heated in this issue as we most certainly would be if the perpetrator were Iraqi.

What do you all think?

Undertoad · 03-17-2003, 01:07 PM

Here's a shot of here while she was alive.

wolf · 03-17-2003, 01:10 PM

I read about her on foxnews.com this morning, as well as on another news site (reuters perhaps? )

Anyway, what drew me to the story was the headline describing her as a "martyr" ... I initially wondered if she had put on a set of DuPont undies and blew something up ... then I realized that "martyr" is SOOO much nicer to say about someone than "fatally clumsy".

No matter how she actually died, it's a shame, shouldn't have happened, etc. etc. ... but she's the one that was fucking around in front of the bulldozer. I can't bring myself to 1) care or 2) see what statement against the war (or any war) that she really made in death.

I knew someone who'd gone to the middle east on one fo these "peace witness" missions. Stupid, IMHO, but I suppose it has just that much more cachet than spending the same money to go as a plain old tourist to somewhere ...

If folks are going to do crap like that, why don't they try "peace witnessing" in a crack neighborhood near home?

vsp · 03-17-2003, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
23 year old American Rachel Corrie was protesting the demolition of a home in the Gaza strip. The demolition was, apparently, because Israel is creating a buffer zone (in other words, not because the home owner, who is a doctor, is a militant).

She's standing in front of the house and the bulldozer runs her over. She has, apparently, been there for some three hours, so it's not as if they didn't know she was there. You can read descriptions of it elsewhere.

I'm a bad human being, but my first thought upon reading this was a brief Hitchhiker's Guide flashback.

PROSSER: Mr. Dent, have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?

ARTHUR: How much?

PROSSER: None at all.

Yes, I'm ill.

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
No matter how she actually died, it's a shame, shouldn't have happened, etc. etc. ... but she's the one that was fucking around in front of the bulldozer. I can't bring myself to 1) care or 2) see what statement against the war (or any war) that she really made in death.

Well, she wasn't trying to send a message or make a statement BY DYING. That's sort of the point here, that the driver was either careless enough or callous enough to run her over. Whether the intent was there on the part of the driver is something I can't answer.

jaguar · 03-17-2003, 02:42 PM

I doubt she meant to die, it did have the effect of bringing the issue back into the news here though which can only be a good thing. My guess? they'll scapegoat the driver and keep running over ordinary palastinians instead.

slang · 03-17-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
What do you all think?

If you feel the need to risk your life to bring light to some event, be prepared to lose it.

As heartless as you may consider this, I would have run her over too. If you are bold enough to stand in front of the bulldozer, I am bold enough to run you over with it. Bulldozers are not quick moving vehicles, you have time to run away. If you insist on doing something you know will injure or kill you, you are foolish or totally committed.

If you are foolish, too bad. If you are committed, I will run you over "with respect" (if there is such a thing) but someone or many someones will not stop the event by standing in the way. If this type of action is effective, nothing will ever happen. Some asshat will be putting themself in the way of the action every day.

juju · 03-17-2003, 06:18 PM

It's rather sad that it takes an American dying in this way for us to feel like it matters. I guess if a Palestinian dies in this way, who cares, right?

I can't believe that none of you assign any blame in this case to Israel. Or did I just misread you? Let's clarify: Do you think it's okay for Israel to just run over people with bulldozers? Are they justified? Does it make them evil?

Undertoad · 03-17-2003, 06:23 PM

Jeez, is that what happened? An entire country ran somebody over with a bulldozer? Just ran her over for no purpose?

I would be against that.

juju · 03-17-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slang
As heartless as you may consider this, I would have run her over too. If you are bold enough to stand in front of the bulldozer, I am bold enough to run you over with it. Bulldozers are not quick moving vehicles, you have time to run away. If you insist on doing something you know will injure or kill you, you are foolish or totally committed.

I think the people who use this technique are gambling on the driver's ethics. They assume that life is more precious than land. Perhaps they also assume the country has laws that enact a hefty punishment on those who take life. It appears this woman was wrong on both parts.

juju · 03-17-2003, 06:28 PM

Dammit! I hate it when I mess up. :)

Elspode · 03-17-2003, 06:33 PM

I blame Israel, however, anyone who is in the least aware of world situations knows that *you do not fuck with Israel*. They *will* run you over with a bulldozer, blow up your house, shoot rockets from helicopters into your compound, etc. They simply do not care who happens to be in the path of the bulldozer/bomb/rockets, because, in their minds, it is Israel or everyone else, and they have chosen Israel.

Israel doesn't back down, they don't apologize, and they pretty much put out an "our way or death" attitude. I think the woman's death is tragic, but it is tragically stupid.

Whether I agree or disagree with Israel is immaterial, because if I get in the way of what they decide to do, I'm gonna die. I know this, but apparently the young woman either overlooked that fact or failed to allow the knowledge to stay her from martyrdom.

The world is a fucked up place these days. I hope it gets better.

jaguar · 03-17-2003, 06:49 PM

They probably also assumed their own nation would do more than just bend over.

Undertoad · 03-17-2003, 06:52 PM

Not only that El, but she sympathized with and perhaps even embraced a culture that celebrates martyrdom.

To truly mourn her may be disrespectful to her own wishes.

elSicomoro · 03-17-2003, 06:59 PM

While I applaud those that seek to fight oppression non-violently, anyone who gets involved in that sort of thing should be well-aware of the risks involved. One needs only to look to MLK or Gandhi for evidence.

Having said that, if it is shown that the operator of the bulldozer acted with careless disregard, then he/she should most certainly be punished.

Unfortunately, I think our close relationship with Israel could interfere with any justice due. To me, it's like the American pilot that killed the Canadians...I don't think anything serious or severe will come out of either case.

Elspode · 03-17-2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
They probably also assumed their own nation would do more than just bend over.

If you mean that the USA kowtows to Israel, I'd have to pretty much agree. I've always wondered why that is.

03-17-2003, 12:46 PM	#1
dave Guest Posts: n/a	American Protestor killed in Gaza You've probably read or heard the news, but here's the gist of it: 23 year old American Rachel Corrie was protesting the demolition of a home in the Gaza strip. The demolition was, apparently, because Israel is creating a buffer zone (in other words, not because the home owner, who is a doctor, is a militant). She's standing in front of the house and the bulldozer runs her over. She has, apparently, been there for some three hours, so it's not as if they didn't know she was there. You can read descriptions of it elsewhere. Because I think it's important to remember these things, I've saved a picture of her, but it wouldn't be right to mislead you. It's not just a picture of her; it's a picture of her crushed head. Here is a link to the picture. I've noticed a rather calm reaction to her death. One wrote, and I agree, that if she had been killed by Iraqi soldiers, we would be at war already. Yet she was killed by an Israeli bulldozer, and while we've demanded a "full investigation" into the incident - whatever that means - we are not nearly as heated in this issue as we most certainly would be if the perpetrator were Iraqi. What do you all think?

03-17-2003, 01:10 PM	#3
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I read about her on foxnews.com this morning, as well as on another news site (reuters perhaps? ) Anyway, what drew me to the story was the headline describing her as a "martyr" ... I initially wondered if she had put on a set of DuPont undies and blew something up ... then I realized that "martyr" is SOOO much nicer to say about someone than "fatally clumsy". No matter how she actually died, it's a shame, shouldn't have happened, etc. etc. ... but she's the one that was fucking around in front of the bulldozer. I can't bring myself to 1) care or 2) see what statement against the war (or any war) that she really made in death. I knew someone who'd gone to the middle east on one fo these "peace witness" missions. Stupid, IMHO, but I suppose it has just that much more cachet than spending the same money to go as a plain old tourist to somewhere ... If folks are going to do crap like that, why don't they try "peace witnessing" in a crack neighborhood near home? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-17-2003, 02:42 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I doubt she meant to die, it did have the effect of bringing the issue back into the news here though which can only be a good thing. My guess? they'll scapegoat the driver and keep running over ordinary palastinians instead. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-17-2003, 06:33 PM	#11
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I blame Israel, however, anyone who is in the least aware of world situations knows that you do not fuck with Israel. They will run you over with a bulldozer, blow up your house, shoot rockets from helicopters into your compound, etc. They simply do not care who happens to be in the path of the bulldozer/bomb/rockets, because, in their minds, it is Israel or everyone else, and they have chosen Israel. Israel doesn't back down, they don't apologize, and they pretty much put out an "our way or death" attitude. I think the woman's death is tragic, but it is tragically stupid. Whether I agree or disagree with Israel is immaterial, because if I get in the way of what they decide to do, I'm gonna die. I know this, but apparently the young woman either overlooked that fact or failed to allow the knowledge to stay her from martyrdom. The world is a fucked up place these days. I hope it gets better. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

03-17-2003, 06:49 PM	#12
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	They probably also assumed their own nation would do more than just bend over. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-17-2003, 01:07 PM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Here's a shot of here while she was alive.

03-17-2003, 06:18 PM	#7
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	It's rather sad that it takes an American dying in this way for us to feel like it matters. I guess if a Palestinian dies in this way, who cares, right? I can't believe that none of you assign any blame in this case to Israel. Or did I just misread you? Let's clarify: Do you think it's okay for Israel to just run over people with bulldozers? Are they justified? Does it make them evil?

03-17-2003, 06:23 PM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Jeez, is that what happened? An entire country ran somebody over with a bulldozer? Just ran her over for no purpose? I would be against that.

03-17-2003, 06:28 PM	#10
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Dammit! I hate it when I mess up. :)

03-17-2003, 06:52 PM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Not only that El, but she sympathized with and perhaps even embraced a culture that celebrates martyrdom. To truly mourn her may be disrespectful to her own wishes.

03-17-2003, 06:59 PM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	While I applaud those that seek to fight oppression non-violently, anyone who gets involved in that sort of thing should be well-aware of the risks involved. One needs only to look to MLK or Gandhi for evidence. Having said that, if it is shown that the operator of the bulldozer acted with careless disregard, then he/she should most certainly be punished. Unfortunately, I think our close relationship with Israel could interfere with any justice due. To me, it's like the American pilot that killed the Canadians...I don't think anything serious or severe will come out of either case.

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