'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Holiday'

[richlevy]

You can tell it's Christmas by the clothes people wear.

Even the pope was dressed for the holidays, looking like a cross between Emperor Palpatine and Santa Claus.

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

Displays of religious iconography do not harm you, or anyone else. You are not forced to participate in their practices, nor am I.

However once 'they' tell others what may and may not be displayed, (ie Target attacked for using the expression "Happy Holiday" - and this attack is for political reasons), then their religion does harm everyone. A display of "Holiday" garnish is not offensive when paid for with public money. But when only Christian symbols are displayed, then that is akin to government sponsoring religion.

Wreaths, trees, decorative lights, Santa Claus, etc in the Holiday spirit are not offensive to anyone. But by taking offense to “Holiday” and demanding that government "put the Christ back into Christmas" (as Christian extremists are demanding) is an offense to the 1st Amendment.

It is a fine line. Was not an issue when Christian extremists were not promoting their religion upon all others. Therefore (and unfortunately) a line must be drawn.

Seasonal garnish is one thing. Public spending that promotes the religion of an extremist group offends anyone American. If we have a manger, then we better have some Kwanzaa, Islamic, and Buddhist trappings as well. This only because Christian religion is now being used for a political agenda. “Put the Christ back in Christmas” is offensive because it imposes beliefs of one religious group upon all others.

Let's not miss what their agenda is. As even stated in testimony in the Dover PA school board lawsuit, Christian extremists wanted to put prayer back into public schools. So now even Holiday decorations require a legal opinion. It's shameful what Christian extremists have done to the Holidays.

Merry Xmas to all who are not so intolerant. And Happy New Year. Another part of "Happy Holidays" that are thankfully devoid of religion - so far.

[Nunya]

Originally Posted by wolf

My increasingly senile mother has already decided that I have ruined Christmas. I am not entirely sure why she has decided this. Neither is she, and hopefully by tomorrow she will have picked something else to obsess about.

Hey, Wolf, your mom sounds like my mom. Jeez, why can't they just realize that they RAISED us to be Christmas ruiners! I "ruined" Christmas last year so I'm staying over on my side of the country this year. But, wouldn't ya know it, my sister stepped up to the plate and "ruined" Thanksgiving this year. We're just a bunch of holiday ruiners--the lot of us. (We're wondering when she's going to wake up and realize that she is actually the one with the problem.)

Chin up! It must simply be something in the mentality of mother's with grown children. :

[wolf]

Rich, do you have any insight into this issue ...

Was there any gift-giving associated with Chanukah before, say, about the 1940s (just guessing at time of culture change)? What do presents have to do with the bottle of oil lasting 8 days, anyway?

Do modern Hasids exchange gifts during Chanukah, or do they just do the prayers over the candles?

[Cain]

Haha



Experience a satisfactory non-denominational winter gift festival citizen

And remember to lighten up a bit, It's Christmas for fuck sakes!

[Nunya]

Originally Posted by wolf

Rich, do you have any insight into this issue ...

Was there any gift-giving associated with Chanukah before, say, about the 1940s (just guessing at time of culture change)? What do presents have to do with the bottle of oil lasting 8 days, anyway?

Do modern Hasids exchange gifts during Chanukah, or do they just do the prayers over the candles?

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are just rearranging their prejudices."

William James

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by wolf

Rich, do you have any insight into this issue ...

Was there any gift-giving associated with Chanukah before, say, about the 1940s (just guessing at time of culture change)? What do presents have to do with the bottle of oil lasting 8 days, anyway?

Do modern Hasids exchange gifts during Chanukah, or do they just do the prayers over the candles?

Well, first, here is a Hanukkah story I had never heard before. Hanukkah is the celebration of a revolt, and as usual, insurgents do not play by the rules and the women are often more dangerous than the men.

I had heard in Hebrew school (say that three times real fast) that the present giving was fairly recent. This site says the same thing. Of course, we could both be wrong and repeating what we were told. BTW, it also mentions the story about Judith.

In remembrance, a candle is lit each of the eight days of Hanukkah. Children receive gifts of gelt (in remembrance of the coins minted by the new independent Maccabee state) or money and play games of dreidel (a spinning four-sided top.) The tradition of receiving a gift on each of the eight days of Hanukkah is fairly recent. Since Christians exchange gifts at Christmas, Jews have come to exchange gifts other than coins at Hanukkah, which comes at the same time of the year.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I understand the greater prevalence of gift-giving on Hanukkah to have been the influence of the Christian Christ Mass and the traditions that have grown up around it -- the Yule log and the Christmas tree are sort of competing traditions -- in a sort of cultural cross-pollination. A once rather minor holiday is becoming a bigger, grander affair. Evolution in progress, please design intelligently if at all.

My Jewish mother-in-law, rest her soul, did me the favor of teaching me correct pronunciation of the holiday even when it got spelled Chanukah. We never did get around to discussing a heroine, a tent peg, and that general, though. The mallet wouldn't have gotten the job done, or was she determined to nail the guy to the spot? At first I thought that was the Judith story... oh well. Something else to put on the reading list.

Other holidays are getting a cross-pollination, too. American-style Halloween celebrations with costuming and hijinks are becoming more and more popular in Mexican Day of the Dead, and of course Day of the Dead stuff is all over southern California anyway. All parties concerned are amused. The Halloween influence is being taken south by Mexicans returning after a stay up north, and by families with relatives on both sides of the border, which is a very frequent occurrence.

Here is a little CHRISTMAS story from the center of Christian Fundie Whackos aka Colorado Springs, home of Focus on the Family and that Dobson idiot.

Yesterday (CHRISTMAS Day) I had occasion to go to a convenience store to buy some half and half. The clerk there was ranting to any customer that would listen how she had placed a sign saying Merry CHRISTMAS on the door, despite the fact that the Jews didn't want her to do this. She went on and on about the Jews and loudly proclaimed that she'd be damned if she said "Happy Chanuka" to ANYONE! I stared at her in astonishment, paid for my half and half, and loudly said "PEACE ON EARTH!" to her and everyone else in the store as I went out the door.

We've come a long way. NOT!

[Elspode]

You're just upset because Christians have the secret to Life Eternal and The Truth, and they're right and you're not, aren't you?

BTW, too bad you aren't a Jew, because you could have sued the shit out of the c-store chain for religious persecution. I mean, you would have felt threatened and demeaned, and you'd have had your civil rights trampled and all, because of all the stuff the cashier was saying. Oh, wait...I'm sorry...its everyone else who is persecuting the Christians these days, right?

I've got to get straight with The Truth.

Tell you what, Patrick. If I were Jewish instead of Buddhist/Native American/Pagan, I doubt if the "Merry Christmas" sign would have bothered me any more than it did when I walked in the door - which was NOT at all. However, by time I walked out of the store, I wanted to tear that "Merry Christmas" sign down, rip it to shreds and set fire to the fragments. I can't imagine how I would have felt if I had been Jewish, but you're right, the only ones who are persecuted these days are the fundies. Umm hmm.

[fargon]

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!! God said it I belive it, and that settles it...

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by fargon

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!! God said it I belive it, and that settles it...

Oh, Pshaw. God said a lot of things.

[Elspode]

I especially like that thing about, if your wife is infertile, you get to do her sister so you can have sons. Gotta love a good patriarchal sort of ethos...

[xoxoxoBruce]

In Boston, they busted an Asian Supermarket for being open on Christmas.