Down here at the pawn shop

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's the thing, nobody's condoning beating the shit out of a kid, but because some people do then we must eliminate corporal punishment. Some people will drive stoned so we must eliminate pot. Some people get fat so we must eliminate refined sugar.

[Undertoad]

We must eliminate corporal punishment.

It's all very transparent to me. If you were hit, you defend hitting. It's pretty universal.

Because as far as you know, YOU YOU YOU are the very best YOU that could have turned out! This applies to EVERYBODY. Nobody has self-awareness about their psychology. NOBODY.

So the question of whether hitting is OK turns into a question about your upbringing. And so it becomes personal; my parents could NOT have done the wrong thing.

In the ghetto, they feel the same way. This is how you raise kids: you smack the shit out of them at every turn. It's just understood. This is the most dangerous, psychopathic, broken culture in our country. Dya mean if they hit MORE they could fix it?

It doesn't work and there is a shit ton of evidence for this. Spend time in the ghetto and you see how it works with ghetto males. Age 0 to 12 they are hit relentlessly. Age 13 through 17 they are the worst, most dangerous people in the country. Age 18 through 35 they are in prison.

[glatt]

I was spanked. Sometimes my dad was angry when he spanked me, and it was terrifying. I don't think he was always in control of himself. I'm not sure what changed, but he got mellower and then didn't spank anymore. Maybe he recognized that he was not in control. I don't know. We don't talk about it. He evolved into the gentlest, greatest guy, so I see no need to open very old wounds. And I don't think I would characterize him as abusive, although he went overboard at times.

My mom spanked me too, but she was never overboard with it.

I doubt that spanking had any impact on my behavior. There were never any threats of spanking, empty or otherwise. I was just told to behave and if I didn't, and it was judged to be a serious enough offense, I was spanked.

I've never hit my kids. We don't spank in our house. They are polite in public and pretty good at home, but they fight with each other at times. So far, they both show good common sense and empathy. A basic respect for other people. I think they are turning out well, and I don't see how hitting them would make them better.

I try to be a good role model for them. I think they learn more from that.

[xoxoxoBruce]

There's a fuck of a lot more going on in the ghetto than hitting.

[Undertoad]

Dya mean if they hit MORE they could fix it?

What is the very worst time of day to be at the shop? It's the same very worst time to be sitting on a bench in a center city subway platform. 3 PM in the afternoon.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...298132921.html

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

... Age 0 to 12 they are hit relentlessly. Age 13 through 17 they are the worst, most dangerous people in the country. Age 18 through 35 they are in prison.

From love taps to double taps. Since these are the most dangerous people in the country and there are no case studies done on a meaningful scale to demonstrate eliminating corporal punishment would improve that demographic, it seems that course of action is merely a preference with particular appeal to the squeamish.

[Gravdigr]

Asked for the second time:

Why do we not use physical punishment (beating, infliction of pain) against prison inmates as part of their sentence?

And I'm not talking Guantanamo...I'm talking shoplifters, armed robbers, mother stabbers, father rapers, you know, the folks on the Group W bench...

Also, I'm not asking if we should, or not...I'm asking why we don't.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

Asked for the second time:

Why do we not use physical punishment (beating, infliction of pain) against prison inmates as part of their sentence?

And I'm not talking Guantanamo...I'm talking shoplifters, armed robbers, mother stabbers, father rapers, you know, the folks on the Group W bench...

Also, I'm not asking if we should, or not...I'm asking why we don't.

I don't know, but we used to. Whipping was common a hundred years ago. There must be some case law somewhere.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by glatt

I don't know, but we used to. Whipping was common a hundred years ago. There must be some case law somewhere.

And why did we stop?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Dya mean if they hit MORE they could fix it?

What is the very worst time of day to be at the shop? It's the same very worst time to be sitting on a bench in a center city subway platform. 3 PM in the afternoon.

C'mon, with your indepth study of the sociological problems of the ghetto you should be able to present a better case than one street crime. I'd love to see your data on why spanking children causes street crime and "hitting, there's talk about hitting, sideways statements about who is gonna get an asswhoopin" is not the result of living in desperate poverty where everyone struggling causes friction.

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

Asked for the second time:
Why do we not use physical punishment (beating, infliction of pain) against prison inmates as part of their sentence?

OMG... you're right... why couldn't I see if before.
Don't spank the little darlings, lock them the fuck up. Won't behave? A couple years chained up in the dungeon will fix that.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...lock them the fuck up.

[Undertoad]

why spanking children causes street crime and [talk of hitting] is not the result of living in desperate poverty where everyone struggling causes friction

Sweden banned spanking in 1979 so they now have an entire complete generation of adults who have not been spanked. The country has not failed. Volvos are still excellent cars.

But we expect they did not one day wake up and say, "by gaw, we have been doing it all wrong all this time! we shall immediately pass legislation making it impossible for anyone to strike a child!" and then there was suddenly no hitting.

We expect they were headed that way all along. And they were a successful culture. So to restate your question: did becoming successful make them stop hitting? Or was stopping hitting part of what made them successful?

I would guess that there's a whole bunch of cyclical problems where poverty leads to X leads to poverty.

But we can't just gift 20% of the population out of poverty, so we should also encourage people to change X.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sweden is a wealthy country, with all sorts of social safety nets and no ghettos. They're also a culture of doing what they are told by the government on all levels.

So Sweden has been successful for 35 post spanking, whoopee fucking doo. They were successful for thousands of years with it.

[Undertoad]

We'll have to wait on the countries that have banned it since then, which are: Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Kenya, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Congo, Republic of Moldova, Romania, South Sudan, Spain, Togo, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

from

Venezuela is a shithole so that didn't work out... and Greece, those nut jobs need a spanking.

[xoxoxoBruce]

They're all metric, so what the hell do they know.