The Philosophy of a True Conservative, Today

[Cyber Wolf]

Exactly how much intrusion is acceptable?

Federal agencies are established for a reason. The process of planning one, getting Congress to establish it, getting physical assets then a workforce in place isn't a quick or easy thing to do. Granted, they may overreach sometimes, but is the original reason they were formed no longer an issue?

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So less government control = more freedom, unless we're talking about the things government does that you approve of?

Yes, that is true. Less government equals more for you. In your wallet, in your freedom.

It's not whether I approve of it, or not. It's whether it's appropriate for a function of federal gov't, as stated in the Constitution.

For example, controlling our borders is a function left to the federal gov't. That is perfectly and undeniably true. So hiring border patrol and immigrant enforcement agents, is perfectly acceptable to me.

Hiring an EPA enforcer to prevent me from using my clean burning car, or running my clean diesel truck, is NOT OK, because the EPA's regulations were never passed as a law, by our representatives, AND the action of the EPA has gone FAR beyond any scientific rationale. Basically, the EPA has adopted regulations into law, that bypass our lawmakers, and totally exclude us from representation, in their decisions. We have no vote on their regulations.

With the stroke of a pen, they can say that every puddle of water, is now a "standing body of water" (meant to describe lakes and such), and make driving a truck through a puddle, now require an environmental study, first! In other words, they can wipe out any forestry or rural jobs, that they want to.

THIS is taxation, without representation, and THAT phrase sounds VERY familiar to an American.

[Ibby]

it's utterly utterly hilarious, literally laugh-out-loud ridiculously laughably utterly undeniably hilarious, how wrong you can consistently be. If it weren't 1 AM and I were more or less sober, I would try to point-by-point prove to you what an idiot you are.

But since I'm drunk and you're stupid, I UTTERLY trust the regular dwellars I respect - which is almost all the regular dwellars - to, even when they disagree with my broader political liberalism, see right through all your utterly backwards, absolutely idiotic bluster.

Most of us dwellar types are MUCH too smart for you lying, ridiculous, idiotic shills.

ETA: yeah sorry this is obviously directed at Adak. Only UG and Merc are so ridiculously and consistently WRONG.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Adak

THIS is taxation, without representation, and THAT phrase sounds VERY familiar to an American.

fair cop. How many senate/house votes do you propose to extend to DC?


No, wait. They're mostly black democrats. God forbid THEY get a say in THEIR government.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Most of us dwellar types are MUCH too smart for you lying, ridiculous, idiotic shills.

ETA: yeah sorry this is obviously directed at Adak. Only UG and Merc are so ridiculously and consistently WRONG.

@Ibby:
Why don't you come over to the C Programming Board forum, and show us just how brilliant you are? Or come over to the DaniWeb C forum, and show us how you'd optimize a Sieve of Eratosthenes algorithm.

Because us C programmers, aren't so dumb, either.
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/c-programming/

=========================================================
Let's see how this Conservative philosophy, can work with a real life (and big) problem:

Education!

This is a multi-part YouTube segment. Each segment is about 10 minutes. When you've completed one segment, choose the next education segment number, from the choices offered on the YouTube screen.

The name of each segment can be seen if you hover the cursor over it.

#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxeP-krUrdU

[BigV]

A computer programmer, eh? That would explain a lot about your affinity for defined labels and your inability to embrace the mixed, indefinite, changeable, contradictory reality of people and their interactions, including elections, in the real world. Thanks for that bit of background.

As for freedom, let me ask you, what about when two parties are in conflict, when their freedoms come at the expense of the other's. Imagine a situation where a manufacturing plant wants the freedom to discharge waste into a river (your introduction of the EPA made me think of this). They wish to be able to be free to do so. Imagine an individual downstream that wants to drink from or bathe in the water of the river. Without government inhibiting the freedoms of either, what happens?

Let me pose another one, since I know you have a strong preference for things that are favorable to business. Imagine that a manufacturer produces a widget. Now imagine another manufacturer sees what a great doodad that is, and starts producing the same widget with a different deelybob on top. Should the second manufacturer be free to do so?

[piercehawkeye45]

I have wondered for a while why computer programmers have such a high proportion of libertarians/conservatives?

[piercehawkeye45]

Delete.

[BigV]

101

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Adak

It's not whether I approve of it, or not. It's whether it's appropriate for a function of federal gov't, as stated in the Constitution.

And then you give some things you approve and disapprove of, ignoring the fact that INS do exactly the same thing that EPA does. They are enacted by the government, given a portfolio, and empowered to create and enforce regulations pursuant to that portfolio.

THIS is taxation, without representation, and THAT phrase sounds VERY familiar to an American.

No, taxation without representation is something I deal with in DC, and any attempts at gaining representation are blocked by Republicans.

(And BTW, I, too, am a computer programmer.)

[Adak]

Originally Posted by BigV

A computer programmer, eh? That would explain a lot about your affinity for defined labels and your inability to embrace the mixed, indefinite, changeable, contradictory reality of people and their interactions, including elections, in the real world. Thanks for that bit of background.

No, I'm not a computer programmer, professionally. I do it for a hobby.

I like the changeable and the freedom to make changes, whether they be contradictory one's or not. What I don't like is when someone calls a chicken, a dog, or a pig, a horse. Like calling the attack on our consulate in Benghazi, a result of a demonstration against a film, when they had a real time feed from a recon drone, AND emails from the consulate, during the 5 hour attack, telling them exactly what was going on.

That's not a labeling problem - that's lying, and when it involves our Ambassador being killed and dragged through the streets, it's NOT a little inconsequential thing, damnit!

As for freedom, let me ask you, what about when two parties are in conflict, when their freedoms come at the expense of the other's. Imagine a situation where a manufacturing plant wants the freedom to discharge waste into a river (your introduction of the EPA made me think of this). They wish to be able to be free to do so. Imagine an individual downstream that wants to drink from or bathe in the water of the river. Without government inhibiting the freedoms of either, what happens?

Let me pose another one, since I know you have a strong preference for things that are favorable to business. Imagine that a manufacturer produces a widget. Now imagine another manufacturer sees what a great doodad that is, and starts producing the same widget with a different deelybob on top. Should the second manufacturer be free to do so?

There are certain (and needed) protections from others making duplicate widgets, of your design. Those protections are limited however.

Think of cars - aren't they a very similar widget with a few deelybobs on top? Yes, but the basic design of a car is not patented. And I think we agree that we all benefit from the competition for our car buying business.

In a free market, if the widget was not protected by patent, trademark, copyright, etc., a company would be free to compete for the widget market. Note that unfair labor practices, might stop a company from being allowed to compete (child labor, forced labor, sweatshop labor, etc.).

[xoxoxoBruce]

So anyone inventing a new widget, and starting a company to make them, will be immediately bigfooted by a corporation with paid for manufacturing capability and advertising network.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I have wondered for a while why computer programmers have such a high proportion of libertarians/conservatives?

Because they're smart!

Seriously, liberals are naive and simple. They think people are always going to do the right things, act in the best way, etc.
That's unrealistic, and as you get older, you learn just HOW unrealistic it is to rely on that kind of philosophy.

One example is Senator Dianne Feinstein, from CA. She was a liberal, and still tries to be one, but she was nearly killed in the Jimmy Jones Guyana kool-aid incident, years ago. She was also there when Harvey Milk (the Mayor of SF), was assassinated. Also, her husband and home have had some serious security issues, from criminals.

SO, now she supports gun control laws - but she herself HAS A PERMIT FOR A CONCEALED FIREARM, and carries a pistol.
THAT is the kind of hypocrite that is all too common, in our leaders today.

"I'll make laws so YOU can't carry a gun, but I will carry a gun. Clearly, I need one, and you are too" stupid/careless/etc.

Gotta love the bald faced hypocrisy there!

Clearly, Diannne Feinstein has learned the hard way, that liberals are too simple, and too willing to trust in the great goodness of others.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Adak

Because they're smart!

Seriously, liberals are naive and simple. They think people are always going to do the right things, act in the best way, etc.

.

Unlike conservatives who think business should be able to operate unrestricted, reliant entirely on the civic mindedness of the business elite to prevent abuses.

[BigV]

what makes labor practices unfair?
what makes a patent? a trademark? a copyright?

you didn't answer the question about the waste discharge freedom vs the drink clean water freedom.

Once again, you're really. really really hung up on labels about what happened in Libya. It's ok, you focus on what you think is important. "act of terror" versus "terrorism" seems terribly important to you. It means something to you. Fine. But you're wildly inconsistent in your choices of what's "important" and what's not, what's valid and what's not. Your standards for different speakers saying similar things are wildly different. this .. .. inconsistency might be easier for you to bear, but it disqualifies you as a respectable source of information. your confirmation bias is so huge it covers your whole horizon, making it indistinguishable from anything else.

You don't want fewer laws or smaller government, you just want the laws YOU want, and for the rest to be removed from your path to freedom.

I'll tell you something else. There is no freedom, no "right" without a corresponding responsibility. I hear little in the way of responsibility from the voices on your side when they're shouting with poutrage about how their freedoms are being trampled. The pandering "I'll restore your freedom, I'll cut your taxes, I'll give you anything you want, with no cost." No buzzkill about responsibility. It is despicable.