Why we should enforce the death penalty

[Lady Sidhe]

I'll update this as often as I can, with articles that give reason to support the death penalty. Feel free to post your own, as well.



First article:


Disabled Marrero Boy Beaten To Death
Thu Apr 29, 6:31 PM ET

A 6-year-old disabled Marrero boy was killed March 22, and his mother and her boyfriend are under arrest.

Doctors said Joshua Bowman, who had cerebral palsy and could not walk or talk, was beaten to death.

"The child had died from a few different causes, but mainly from a severed liver -- from blunt-force trauma," said Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Detective Doug Thornton. "Evidently, someone had delivered a blow of some type into the child's abdomen, sending the liver into the spine and nearly severing it in two."

Joshua's mother, Georzett Bowman, 26, and her boyfriend, Charles Wilson, 22, who is not Joshua's father, each were booked April 23 with first-degree murder.

Police said medical records indicated a history of apparent abuse. They said Joshua previously had been treated for broken arms, legs and ribs.

Police said Bowman is nine months pregnant with Wilson's child.



(You know....The death penalty isn't as expensive as people think...a powerful enough bullet can go through two people...)


Sidhe

[jaguar]

For every cut and dried case there is another that is questionable, look at that child molester who's been locked up for 20 odd years because the cops coaxed allegations out of them under duress. What's more valuable? An eye for an eye or the life of an innocent man?

[Skunks]

How much of a life is it, if twenty years are spent in jail?

<blockquote><pre>
It's spring outside, my dear wife, spring.
Outside on the plain, suddenly the smell
of fresh earth, birds singing, etc.
It's spring, my dear wife,
the plain outside sparkles...
And <a href="http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~sibel/poetry/poems/nazim_hikmet/english/letters_from_a_man_in_solitary">inside</a> the bed comes alive with bugs,
the water jug no longer freezes,
and in the morning sun floods the concrete...

-- <A href="http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~sibel/poetry/poems/nazim_hikmet/_About/About2.html">Nazim Hikmet</a>
</pre></blockquote>

If the options are "kill bad people with the risk of killing an innocent" or "don't kill people because you might kill an innocent person", it seems the obvious third option is "figure out more conclusively who is or isn't guilty".

[jaguar]

If the options are "kill bad people with the risk of killing an innocent" or "don't kill people because you might kill an innocent person", it seems the obvious third option is "figure out more conclusively who is or isn't guilty".

Well, in theory yes, in reality, good luck.

Not only is there the potential that an innocent person could be executed, the moral logic of the death penalty eludes me. "It is wrong to kill, therfore we will kill you." In a way, by imposing the death penalty, the state and courts are saying that its OK to take a life. You do not fight the enemy by becoming him.

Putting the two people to death who killed that poor child will not bring him back to life or undo the suffering he endured. The death penalty for people like that is an easy way out. Let 'em spend the rest of their natural lives in a maximum security prison, so they have lots of time to think over what they did. Even other criminals despise people who kill children. You can be sure those two's existance behind bars will not be pretty.

[DanaC]

I have heard it said that one can judge a society by the way it treats its criminals. I dont believe the death penalty does a ny good. The nature of criminality and the prejudices of most societies lead to any such penalty being weighed heavily against the poor. The poor are more likely to commit crimes and having committed them are less likely to be given adequate legal representation
In America youare more likely to be convicted of a murder if you are black. Having been convicted you are more likely to face the death penalty if you are black. . Black and white people are the victims of violent crime in roughly equal numbers, yet 82 per cent of people executed since 1977 have been convicted of killing white victims.

The lawyers and judges who preside over these legal proceedings and the people who write the laws which govern them are generally from a very different class and background to those who face the death penalty. As far as I am concerned its good old fashioned class war, the fact that many people of working class backgrounds have been persuaded to this method of justice is an example to me of how the moneyed classes keep their lessers in order. In Saudi Arabia they chop the hands of thieves.....its just another way that the poor are oppressed. Its the same method that's been used throughout history. Make the masses see that the criminal is an "other" disassociate the criminal from the rest of society.....Sell them a dream of what their society should look like and then tell them that the people who are standing in their way and ruining it for everyone are the criminals. Its almost medieaval. The idea of the Ideal as we should look to it, being held at bay by those who do not follow the programme.....Hence we see such a graphic and violent punishment for those who disturb the balance and in doing prevent us from reaching our goal.


In the UK there have been many prominent cases recently which have led to a worries that our jails are in fact brimming over wiht people who should not be there. There are many parents who have been committed of killing their babies and whose cases are now being reassesed because the "expert witnesses" have been proved to be unreliable. There are examples in the USA too. The "shaken baby syndrome" which convicted the british nanny louise woodward has faced scurtiny and is now considred to be less than sure.

Many of the women ( mainly women though some men) who have served jail time in the UK are now being released after trhe convictions have been deemed unsafe. Trypti Patel is one of the more famous ones over here.

Thats just an example of some of the miscarriages of justice currently in the british news. If we add to that the many many unsafe convictions for other crrimes ( irishmen convicted of political crimes they didnt do for instance ) we see that the justice system simply isnt to be trusted to the degree needed to ensure no innocent is convicted.

Frankly though, even if the person has been caught stood over the bleeding corpse of their victim , knife in hand with an evil grin spread across their murderous face....I still deem capital punishment an act of barbarism and the electric chair in particular is a disgrace to the modern world.

As an aside there are states in th USA which have convicted children who will face the death penalty when they reach maturity. I saw one case with a pair of young lads who seemingly had struck back at their abusive father and his abusive friends by killing their dad.....Both lads were convicted both now face a jail sentence until they are old enough to be put to death. ...in 24 US states people can be sentenced to death for crimes committed when they were children......so thats just you guys and China.

Not to mention of course those who have mental retardation... In 1989 the US Supreme Court ruled that it was not unconstitutional to execute mentally retarded people. Since then some 30 mentally impaired people have been executed.

I read of one case for instance of a fellow who had schizophrenia .....He was sentenced to die and before he died he was given medication which gave him a temporary measure of normality ( some kind of ati psychotic agent) so that he would fully understand his fate.......

We havent even talked about the brutality ofthe method....The electric chair which so often goes wrong is an abomination. At the very least if you are going to insist on slaughtering your murderers use a method that kills instantly and painlessly (injection ).....Or is it necessary that the condemned suffer mortal agony in order for justice to be served?

In Europe we consider Capital Punishment to be barbaric and unfair.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally posted by Skunks
How much of a life is it, if twenty years are spent in jail?

I would think that that would be a choice best left up to the convicted innocent.

[xoxoxoBruce]

In Europe we consider Capital Punishment to be barbaric and unfair.

In Europe, you get many things wrong.

[Lady Sidhe]

Life in prison is never life in prison. "Life" generally means seven years, then parole.

Why should I have to support these people? Why should I have to pay for their cable, their medical treatment? I can't afford cable for myself, and I can't even afford medical insurance for myself, but I have to pay for theirs??



"I dont believe the death penalty does any good."

I guarantee you that an executed murderer will never kill again. 0% recidivism rate.



"one can judge a society by the way it treats its criminals"

It would seem that a better way to judge society would be by the way it treats the victims of its criminals....



"The nature of criminality and the prejudices of most societies lead to any such penalty being weighed heavily against the poor. The poor are more likely to commit crimes and having committed them are less likely to be given adequate legal representation"


You know what? That's not my problem. I'm poor, and I don't use that as an excuse to go out and commit crimes. And I once WAS accused of something I didn't do. I had to use a public defender. I won.

The question is not, "is the offender poor?", but "did s/he do it?" That's what matters. Using race or economic disadvantage does not absolve one of guilt. Sure, the rich may elude punishment more, but I think that's more of an axiom that the liberals have said so many times that everyone believes it without question. I don't want to risk becoming a victim of a crime, or someone in my family becoming a victim, because a defendant was given a slap on the wrist, got out early because of time served and good time, just because he was poor.

I've read a shitload of true crime (it comprises most of my rather extensive personal library), and murderers tend toward recidivism. They get let out, and just go on killing.



"The lawyers and judges who preside over these legal proceedings and the people who write the laws which govern them are generally from a very different class and background to those who face the death penalty. As far as I am concerned its good old fashioned class war, the fact that many people of working class backgrounds have been persuaded to this method of justice is an example to me of how the moneyed classes keep their lessers in order. In Saudi Arabia they chop the hands of thieves.....its just another way that the poor are oppressed. Its the same method that's been used throughout history. Make the masses see that the criminal is an "other" disassociate the criminal from the rest of society.".


Class war, my tailfeathers! It's a war between law-abiding society and criminal society. You notice how little crime they have in Saudi Arabia, don't you? That's because justice is swift and sure. There also have to be three witnesses to the act. I know someone who was in Saudi when a thief got his hand cut off in the market. He saw the whole thing. The criminal IS the "other." The criminal is a predator. If you had a henhouse, would you just let the fox kill all your chickens because it was easier for him than hunting?



"Frankly though, even if the person has been caught stood over the bleeding corpse of their victim , knife in hand with an evil grin spread across their murderous face....I still deem capital punishment an act of barbarism and the electric chair in particular is a disgrace to the modern world."


I agree. Electricity is too expensive. You can reuse a rope.



"As an aside there are states in th USA which have convicted children who will face the death penalty when they reach maturity. "


I agree with that. Murderous children often become murderous adults. Sociopathy is usually in evidence by age 15, and it cannot be cured. Some sociopaths can live in society fine, but for those who can't, why should I have to worry that one may kidnap my daughter, rape her, strangle her, and throw her body in the bushes because he was let out at age 18?


"Not to mention of course those who have mental retardation... In 1989 the US Supreme Court ruled that it was not unconstitutional to execute mentally retarded people. Since then some 30 mentally impaired people have been executed."

The question is dangerousness. If they are a continuing danger to society, then they should be eliminated rather than warehoused. Not all mentally retarded people are like Forrest Gump. I've worked with retarded children who are cunning and sneaky, and would jump you at the drop of a hat. One of those retarded children sent a psychiatric worker to the hospital in an ambulance. Why? The PA woke her up. There are varying degrees of retardation, some so slight as to be unnoticable, but the media jumps on the word, and people see Forrest Gump.



"I read of one case for instance of a fellow who had schizophrenia .....He was sentenced to die and before he died he was given medication which gave him a temporary measure of normality ( some kind of ati psychotic agent) so that he would fully understand his fate."

The public is told that mentally disturbed people aren't dangerous. That was the same drivel they fed us in training for the psychiatric ward. BULLSHIT. If you've got a schizophrenic who refuses to take his meds, odds are you're going to feel the impact of his psychosis sooner or later. The fact is, some of them ARE dangerous, and if they commit a violent crime, they should pay for it. If they refuse meds, they're refusing to control the illness, and thus have a built-in excuse for any dangerous acts they commit. In the psych ward, we had several patients who refused meds. We had to watch our backs constantly if we wanted to walk off our shift under our own power.


"We havent even talked about the brutality ofthe method....The electric chair which so often goes wrong is an abomination. At the very least if you are going to insist on slaughtering your murderers use a method that kills instantly and painlessly (injection )."


How about the brutality of a strangling? It takes five minutes to die from strangling. Hold your breath for five minutes and tell me that isn't brutal. How about the brutality of a rape and murder? How about the brutality of knowing that you'll never see a family member again? I couldn't give a rat's ass LESS if they suffer. They deserve it. No, they should not die painlessly. Odds are, their victim(s) did not die painlessly, and the victim's family and friends will live with the pain of their loss forever. We should be more concerned with the victims. It seems to me that anyone who takes the side of the murderer is by default taking the side AGAINST the victim.


"Or is it necessary that the condemned suffer mortal agony in order for justice to be served?"


IMO, YES, it IS necessary. Not only is the death penalty justice, it's society's revenge. The only problem I see with the death penalty is that it isn't used swiftly enough, and it isn't sure enough.

Society must be protected from predators, or it won't survive. Warehousing them and providing them with all the amenities that many law-abiding citizens can't afford is a slap in the face.

And how about in England, where those children lured the little boy out of the mall and killed him on the railroad tracks? That deserves the death penalty, as far as I'm concerned. If children that young are killing already, all they're going to learn is that they can get away with it. They lured an innocent child to his death. For the fun of it. I have no sympathy for them. They deserve to die. A life for a life. It may not bring the little boy back, but it may save someone else's life in the future. That's what's important, not the feelings of the poor killer.

The way I see it, people in America know the penalty for certain crimes; therefore, if you commit a crime for which the punishment is death, you're taking your chances. You KNOW what the penalty will be if you're caught, therefore, don't whine when you get it. It's not like we sprung it on you unawares. You took the chance, and you lost. Poor baby.

The high cost of the death penalty isn't the execution--it's the endless appeals. If DNA testing were mandatory, I think we'd find a lot fewer innocent people convicted; but it's NOT mandatory. And I feel that a lawful execution is no more murder than lawful confiscation is stealing.




Sidhe

[Yelof]

[through clenched teeth]
T..R..Y..I..N..G H..A..R..D N..O..T J..O..I..N E..N..D..L..E..S..S D..E..B..A..T..E..
[/through clenched teeth]

Go DanaC go!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Chicken.

[wolf]

Go Lady Sidhe, go...

(There are two kinds of justice: Regular or Extra Crispy)

I do believe that the death penalty system needs to be revamped in this country, but that's in the name of efficiency. There need to be limitations on the appeals process ... many "death row" prisoners are dying of old age or natural causes rather than lethal injection.

Oh, and why do they have them on suicide watch ... anyone ever wonder about that one? They'd be saving the state the money.

[jaguar]

Not only is the death penalty justice, it's society's revenge.

Therein lies the problem.

[Lady Sidhe]

You've been reading our webpage haven't you? (crispy or extra crispy)

And the suicide watch thing....I never thought of that...lol...that DOESN'T make a whole lot of sense, does it? It'd save us the price of electricity, or lethal injection dose.....



Sidhe

[wolf]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
You've been reading our webpage haven't you? (crispy or extra crispy)

Actually, I had a tee shirt that said that, um, like 20 years ago.

It was sold through Soldier of Fortune magazine. They probably still have it.