Why Do People Hate the USA

[juju]

Originally posted by downside
I agree that the US, in supplying weapons to our Allies, we must look like an enemy. But still, to attack an office building? That has less to do with politics and more to do with hatred.

If you want to strategically stop the US from sending weapons to your enemy, you physically hit the planes, trins, and automobiles (John Candy not included) that are bringing them. Don't attack our families that have little to nothing to do with the problem. This is what happened.

Yeah, i guess you have a point. Still, I think both are probably significant factors. I think people deeply misunderstand our enemies when they say they attacked our office buildings just because they hate our movies (not that you're putting in that way, but other people have).

Heh. I can imagine you, sitting there in your righteousness, feeling great about your superiority over me because you've never had enough Hapa friends or Black friends to know that "mutt" or "brown" to many of them isn't an insult, but a term of affection. But hey, whatever.

No one is justifying an attack on civilians. Hey, it upset me too. But whether or not you want to admit it, the attack on the World Trade Center was executed brilliantly and was <b>very</b> successful.

For example, as we sit here, you are less free than you were on September 10th.

Many billions of dollars were lost in stocks with the resulting market fall.

There are over 3,000 people dead, including a guy that I worked with. 19 guys killed over 3,000. That's pretty fucking successful.

It wasn't stupid. It accomplished exactly what they wanted it to do - we are afraid to do many things we used to do without thinking, and we're less free doing them.

And tell me to open me to open my eyes? Why, because I refuse to refer to my friends as "browns"?

No. Because you refuse to acknowledge that racism is omnipresent.

[downside]

Juju, you've summed up the argument nicely.

DumSac: You've proven to be much more useless than originally thought. But don't get me wrong, you do use big words.

Some people don't mind being called "niggers" either. The difference between you and I is that I have the sense that MOST people of color would be offended by it. You just assume otherwise.

And I doubt highly that the terrorists were planning to decrease the price of my Coca-Cola stock. If so, they should have just boycotted like the rest of us.

Who is at war right now, and who is on their computers? The people free to talk trashon these sites, I garauntee are more free.

And I'm glad your impressed at the mass destruction these people caused. If building tumbling and people dying impress you, feel free to stand closer next time for a better look.

Success can only be measured when the tast is done. America isn't finished.

[Nic Name]

racism is omnipotent

What do you mean by omnipotent?

ubiquitous?

[downside]

I think he means "good".

Hee hee! You're so cute when you make funnies of my name.

My goal isn't to be useful. It's intelligent discussion. You're trying, and I'm not personally attacking you for that. You, on the other hand, are now making an effort to discredit me. That's okay too - I expect it from time to time. Unfortunately, you're not going to discourage me.

I know for a fact that most African American citizens would be offended by being called "nigger". I have the good sense to address my African American <b>friends</b> (not acquaintances - the difference is important) by their names. Now, this doesn't change the fact that their skin is brown, the same as mine is pale. My Asian American <b>friends</b> (not acquaintances - the difference is important) are also addressed by their names, except for some lovingly placed race jokes, such as "mutt" and "slitty eyed". Know what they do when I bring that up? Laugh. Hmmmm.

Furthermore, I never called anyone "nigger". I even stated pretty clearly that I don't condone the usage of the word in a derogatory sense, but only while quoting. What say you now?

And I doubt highly that the terrorists were planning to decrease the price of my Coca-Cola stock.

Well, then you're mostly ignorant of the investigation into their motives. They knew that what they were doing was going to wreak financial havoc. It was very much a part of their plan.

And I'm glad your impressed at the mass destruction these people caused. If building tumbling and people dying impress you, feel free to stand closer next time for a better look

Awww, now you want me dead. I love you too!

Saying that the September 11 attacks were not well executed is denial. Any level headed, rational, non-emotional thinking person will tell you that they were very successful. That doesn't mean that I agree with them, that I think they should have happened, or that I'm glad that Khang Nguyen, my co-worker, died in the Pentagon as he did. If you stand back and look at the attack from a non-emotional and rational point, it's very easy to see that these were well planned and exceptionally well executed.

Success can only be measured when the tast is done. America isn't finished.

Their task is done. 3,000 people are dead. Nothing we do is going to bring that back.

Will we win the war? Yes. Absolutely. And, incidentally, it's something that I support. But that doesn't change the fact that al Qaeda's first blow was a very successful one.

[ Edit - fixed typo - "as" becomes "is". ]

Originally posted by Nic Name
What do you mean by omnipotent?

ubiquitous?

Ha! Yes. Wrong word came out. I was listening to a song with "omniscient" in it and omnipotent somehow popped out. Will edit to reflect. Good catch.

[LordSludge]

Guess it was just a matter of time before the discussion degenerated into ad hominem attacks -- attack the debator rather than his argument. Sad, but inevitable.

[downside]

Well, pardon me if I read correctly into what you were saying. You never said before that you only call friends by these names, which is great for your friends I have to assume. And also, how are Asians 'mutts'? I expect racist slang to be low-brow, but this doesn't seem to make any sence.

I think you give to much credit to a pack of idiots.

The terrorists were aiming to take lives, not waste our money. It probably never occurred to them what the damage cost did to our economic system. To them, it was probably a welcome surprise.

And It doesn't take much to learn to fly. 12 year olds do it all the time. So how is it that plowing a plane into the tallest building is brilliant? It was the large building out there; alls they had to do was steer.

In your next argument, explain to me the effect the Holocaust had on my local bread factory and why Hitler was brilliant. That arguement, although interesting, is just as useful as this.

[Undertoad]

<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin's-Law.html" target="new">Godwin's law</a> invoked.

[juju]

Originally posted by Undertoad
<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin's-Law.html" target="new">Godwin's law</a> invoked.

LOL.

[juju]

Originally posted by LordSludge
Guess it was just a matter of time before the discussion degenerated into ad hominem attacks -- attack the debator rather than his argument. Sad, but inevitable.

Dhamsaic has a history of composing intelligent responses and then lacing them with profanities. This throws the other person off, causing them to attack the profanities instead of the actual issue, and makes dhamsaic look more intelligent because he's the only one addressing the issues. Prety clever if you ask me, though he denies that it's intentional. :]

Originally posted by downside
And also, how are Asians 'mutts'? I expect racist slang to be low-brow, but this doesn't seem to make any sence.

Uh, try Asian Americans, like I said. You know. Half Chinese, Half Hick. Or, in the case of my friend Jason, just Half Chinese, Half Caucasian.

I think you give to much credit to a pack of idiots.

The terrorists were aiming to take lives, not waste our money. It probably never occurred to them what the damage cost did to our economic system. To them, it was probably a welcome surprise.

And It doesn't take much to learn to fly. 12 year olds do it all the time. So how is it that plowing a plane into the tallest building is brilliant? It was the large building out there; alls they had to do was steer.

See, what you're doing here is discrediting them. It's what a large portion of the American public has done, and for good reason - we want to believe that these were just a bunch of loonies, a bunch of idiots, that did this. 'Cause we can take a bunch of idiots, can't we? We can crush these idiots. We don't want to admit that we're up against a difficult and intelligent enemy. I don't blame you for viewing them this way, but I think it's very inaccurate. Those in the intelligence field will tell you the same.

In your next argument, explain to me the effect the Holocaust had on my local bread factory and why Hitler was brilliant. That arguement, although interesting, is just as useful as this.

Brilliant does not mean that a person is incapable of atrocities. The fact of the matter is that Adolf Hitler was a highly intelligent person. He was a <b>brilliant</b> orator. He was <b>brilliant</b> in his ability to assemble the support of Germany. He also had a lot of misplaced hatred and managed to accomplish one of the most horrific mass murders in the history of the world.

Again, it's easier to discredit monsters like Hitler as idiots and loonies (though Hitler may indeed have had some serious mental issues). However, again, it is incorrect to do so, and short sighted. The first rule of war is to know your enemy. We need to look at them from a rational, non-emotional point of view and attempt to understand the who's, the what's, the when's, the where's, the how's and, most importantly, the why's. Why did 3,000+ people die on September 11th? Was it because a bunch of mentally retarded Arabs managed to commandeer four jets and fly them into buildings? No. It was because a very well planned operation was successfully executed by people willing to die for their cause. Do not underestimate them.

[Nic Name]

Shouldn't this thread be in politics, or polemics, or whatever that word is I'm thinking of?

[LordSludge]

Originally posted by juju2112
Dhamsaic has a history of composing intelligent responses and then lacing them with profanities. This throws the other person off, causing them to attack the profanities instead of the actual issue, and makes dhamsaic look more intelligent because he's the only one addressing the issues. Prety clever if you ask me, though he denies that it's intentional. :]

Hm, actually I was referring to downside:

DumSac: You've proven to be much more useless than originally thought. But don't get me wrong, you do use big words.

Direct attack against dham. Nothing to do with his argument.

Some people don't mind being called "niggers" either. The difference between you and I is that I have the sense that MOST people of color would be offended by it. You just assume otherwise.
...
And I'm glad your impressed at the mass destruction these people caused. If building tumbling and people dying impress you, feel free to stand closer next time for a better look.

Dham is insensitive, and therefore wrong. Bzzzt! Faulty logic.

Profanities != ad hominem attacks. Perhaps a failure of vocabulary, but that's about it.

FWIW, I'm pretty much in agreement w/ dham on this one. It's a complex situation that can't be understood, much less solved, with the "They're insane! Nuke the insane towelheads!!" sentiment so common in the 'States these days.

Yeah, I'm a N00B here, but I'm used to being on the unpopular end of arguments, so this stuff is nothing new.

[edit: typo]