Sept 25th, 2016: Judas Goats

xoxoxoBruce · 09-24-2016, 07:48 PM

During the big one, WW II, bombing was a serious deadly business, so what is this a clown plane?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'd never heard of this.

classicman · 09-25-2016, 07:39 AM

Nor I - Bizarre.

Snakeadelic · 09-25-2016, 08:28 AM

I'd never heard of these guys either, although I do know what a Judas goat is. Fitting nickname, really.

Carruthers · 09-25-2016, 11:01 AM

I hadn't heard of these aircraft either.
Once the bombers had formed up, I imagine that it was a quick dash for home.
Given their conspicuity they'd make an easy target for an enemy fighter that had crept in once the formation was out of the way.
One reference noted that they were unarmed.

Diaphone Jim · 09-25-2016, 11:03 AM

Tired aircraft and crew members who had served their time in battle performing a vital task.
I wonder if they were really seen in a negative way.

Pamela · 09-25-2016, 06:14 PM

I knew of this from my studies of the Eighth Air Force in Britain. Still, a fascinating sidelight to a long saga.

Snakeadelic · 09-26-2016, 06:58 AM

Diaphone Jim, if a farmboy calls something a Judas goat, that thing is not perceived in a happy or friendly light, so at least some of the flight and ground crews weren't happy about the job these planes did. I've been around enough farms, boys, and goats to have picked up a few details...

Carruthers · 09-26-2016, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pamela

I knew of this from my studies of the Eighth Air Force in Britain. Still, a fascinating sidelight to a long saga.

Have you read 'Secret Squadrons of the Eighth'?

There's a copy going on Amazon US for $0.99 + $3.99 shipping.
Has 5 x 5* reviews. A good read for under five bucks.

Beest · 09-26-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeadelic

Diaphone Jim, if a farmboy calls something a Judas goat, that thing is not perceived in a happy or friendly light, so at least some of the flight and ground crews weren't happy about the job these planes did. I've been around enough farms, boys, and goats to have picked up a few details...

why the animosity though, there just doing a job, important in it's own way.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-26-2016, 08:55 AM

Because the odds of not coming back were pretty high. Those hundreds of crews all knew that, but everybody was in the same boat... except the Assembly ships.
I'm sure the troops in the trenches felt the same way about the officer who yelled, "everybody over the top", and stayed in the trench.

footfootfoot · 09-26-2016, 10:43 AM

Sorry, I thought you said go...

Oh, you did say goats. Never mind.

SPUCK · 10-03-2016, 02:12 AM

I've seen those planes many times! But I never knew what they did. As a kid I had an "Airplane Book". It had those planes in it but it just identified the type of plane.

Snakeadelic · 10-03-2016, 07:57 AM

For anyone who hasn't looked up "Judas goat" yet, it's an animal trained to lead its own kind quietly and calmly up the kill ramp at the slaughterhouse. The clown planes and their crews got to stay at the relative safety of the base while the other fliers ran enormous odds of horrible fiery death. That's why the animosity.

Diaphone Jim · 10-03-2016, 11:12 AM

Actually Judas Goats were (are?) trained to lead sheep. They provided a necessary, even humane, function at the facilities.
I could not find first hand reports of animosity toward the crews of the Assembly aircraft. Getting lost or otherwise failing to join your formation worried pilots much more than the job the guidance pilots were doing.
The term says more about airman humor than resentment.
Fiery death was more often delivered than received.

SPUCK · 10-03-2016, 11:01 PM

I agree Diaphone and those crews were "assigned" not skating or shirking hazard. I'm sure it was quasi-dark humor and an important moral tool.

09-24-2016, 07:48 PM	#1
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Sept 25th, 2016: Judas Goats During the big one, WW II, bombing was a serious deadly business, so what is this a clown plane? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'd never heard of this. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-25-2016, 07:39 AM	#2
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Nor I - Bizarre. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

09-25-2016, 11:01 AM	#4
Carruthers Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Buckinghamshire UK Posts: 4,059	I hadn't heard of these aircraft either. Once the bombers had formed up, I imagine that it was a quick dash for home. Given their conspicuity they'd make an easy target for an enemy fighter that had crept in once the formation was out of the way. One reference noted that they were unarmed. __________________

09-26-2016, 08:55 AM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Because the odds of not coming back were pretty high. Those hundreds of crews all knew that, but everybody was in the same boat... except the Assembly ships. I'm sure the troops in the trenches felt the same way about the officer who yelled, "everybody over the top", and stayed in the trench. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-26-2016, 10:43 AM	#11
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Sorry, I thought you said go... Oh, you did say goats. Never mind. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

09-25-2016, 08:28 AM	#3
Snakeadelic Banned Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 660	I'd never heard of these guys either, although I do know what a Judas goat is. Fitting nickname, really.

09-25-2016, 11:03 AM	#5
Diaphone Jim Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,122	Tired aircraft and crew members who had served their time in battle performing a vital task. I wonder if they were really seen in a negative way.

09-25-2016, 06:14 PM	#6
Pamela Deplorable Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 767	I knew of this from my studies of the Eighth Air Force in Britain. Still, a fascinating sidelight to a long saga.

09-26-2016, 06:58 AM	#7
Snakeadelic Banned Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 660	Diaphone Jim, if a farmboy calls something a Judas goat, that thing is not perceived in a happy or friendly light, so at least some of the flight and ground crews weren't happy about the job these planes did. I've been around enough farms, boys, and goats to have picked up a few details...

10-03-2016, 02:12 AM	#12
SPUCK Professor Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,911	I've seen those planes many times! But I never knew what they did. As a kid I had an "Airplane Book". It had those planes in it but it just identified the type of plane.

10-03-2016, 07:57 AM	#13
Snakeadelic Banned Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 660	For anyone who hasn't looked up "Judas goat" yet, it's an animal trained to lead its own kind quietly and calmly up the kill ramp at the slaughterhouse. The clown planes and their crews got to stay at the relative safety of the base while the other fliers ran enormous odds of horrible fiery death. That's why the animosity.

10-03-2016, 11:12 AM	#14
Diaphone Jim Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,122	Actually Judas Goats were (are?) trained to lead sheep. They provided a necessary, even humane, function at the facilities. I could not find first hand reports of animosity toward the crews of the Assembly aircraft. Getting lost or otherwise failing to join your formation worried pilots much more than the job the guidance pilots were doing. The term says more about airman humor than resentment. Fiery death was more often delivered than received.

10-03-2016, 11:01 PM	#15
SPUCK Professor Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,911	I agree Diaphone and those crews were "assigned" not skating or shirking hazard. I'm sure it was quasi-dark humor and an important moral tool.

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