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Old 02-01-2018, 10:02 AM   #1
xoxoxoBruce
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New Approach to Healthcare.

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Amazon, Berkshire Hathaway and JPMorgan Chase & Co. announced today that they are partnering on ways to address healthcare for their U.S. employees, with the aim of improving employee satisfaction and reducing costs. The three companies, which bring their scale and complementary expertise to this long-term effort, will pursue this objective through an independent company that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints. The initial focus of the new company will be on technology solutions that will provide U.S. employees and their families with simplified, high-quality and transparent healthcare at a reasonable cost.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:26 AM   #2
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I think this is beautiful. I imagine that once it is up and running, large numbers of companies across the county will be clambering to get in. We may end up with a single payer system via the private sector. Insurance company profits are only one part of the puzzle of high health care costs. But if they get big enough, they may be able to negotiate lower rates for care givers and medications.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:39 AM   #3
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It's nice, but only because the government won't do it. It's better that someone does it than nobody, but Amazon is awful to their (low-level) employees and barely tries to claim to respect data privacy, if at all.
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:17 AM   #4
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Amazon is awful to their (low-level) employees.
It's true. Anyone working for this insurance company is going to be compensated poorly. And they may also lower costs by denying more claims.
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:19 PM   #5
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Well that's not new.
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Old 02-01-2018, 04:34 PM   #6
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My hospital bill in November was $54,680.20, Aetna/Medicare paid $16,404. Everybody accepted that.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:34 PM   #7
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The initial focus of the new company will be on technology solutions that will provide U.S. employees and their families with simplified, high-quality and transparent healthcare at a reasonable cost.
Mr. Clod's employer just signed on for a similar private online system called Teladoc. Remote diagnosis and emailed prescriptions for basic flu/strep/etc. On the one hand, yay for not having to haul your kid down to a clinic and wait for hours when you already know goddamn well what's wrong with them. On the other, this is only going to increase the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
Mr. Clod's employer just signed on for a similar private online system called Teladoc. Remote diagnosis and emailed prescriptions for basic flu/strep/etc. On the one hand, yay for not having to haul your kid down to a clinic and wait for hours when you already know goddamn well what's wrong with them. On the other, this is only going to increase the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics.
Also, very difficult to distinguish between an innocuous flu and the beginnings of sepsis at the best of times - teladoc I suspect would make for more misses.

The news often has examples of the times doctors missed sepsis when someone presented with flu-like symptoms but how about those people who present with severe flu and whose lives are saved by an observant emergency room doctor or nurse who recognises sepsis?

It's such a difficult thing to spot and it's one of the biggest killers.

That's the trouble with 'routine' illnesses - they're the ones schemes like this focus on as low hanging fruit but the early symptoms of a number of very serious illnesses are all but identical to the symptoms of routine illnesses.

That kind of technology can play a really important role in getting medical diagnoses to people who are unable to access healthcare providers directly - or to make follow-up care and advice easier and less reliant on one to one appointments - but there are serious dangers in using it to cut down the costs of medical attention.
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Last edited by DanaC; 02-02-2018 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:00 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
It's nice, but only because the government won't do it. It's better that someone does it than nobody, but Amazon is awful to their (low-level) employees and barely tries to claim to respect data privacy, if at all.
They see the writing on the wall. If the "market" can't sort this out Bernie will. Attaching healthcare to work makes little sense.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Also, very difficult to distinguish between an innocuous flu and the beginnings of sepsis at the best of times - teladoc I suspect would make for more misses.

The news often has examples of the times doctors missed sepsis when someone presented with flu-like symptoms but how about those people who present with severe flu and whose lives are saved by an observant emergency room doctor or nurse who recognises sepsis?

It's such a difficult thing to spot and it's one of the biggest killers.

That's the trouble with 'routine' illnesses - they're the ones schemes like this focus on as low hanging fruit but the early symptoms of a number of very serious illnesses are all but identical to the symptoms of routine illnesses.

Presumably, a private healthcare insurer would investigate and utilize whatever treatment has promise, NOT just the profit-making treatments that a public insurer insists upon.

That kind of technology can play a really important role in getting medical diagnoses to people who are unable to access healthcare providers directly - or to make follow-up care and advice easier and less reliant on one to one appointments - but there are serious dangers in using it to cut down the costs of medical attention.
On the other hand . . .

How well I remember the early diagnoses I received from Kaiser doctors in response to my complaints about a severe pinched nerve problem (shitty work space design, shitty chair, etc.). First, they suggested my numb/tingling arms and legs might be the onset of MS. Two weeks later, they thought maybe I had a brain tumor, and scheduled an MRI.

In the gap between Kaiser visits, I found an incredible chiropractor and began a series of visits that had instant positive effects. Had to pay out of pocket (Kaiser didn't believe in chiropractic back then), and it took several months and lots of visits, but the man fixed me.

Modern Medicine + Big Pharma (also known as "Cut it out or drug it into submission), is all too ready to jump to ridiculous conclusions and order absurdly expensive tests or procedures to support their insurance company overlords. I knew the tingling/numbness were the result of a pinched nerve in my neck. I told the doctors that the numbness/tingling disappeared whenever I stood up, stretched a bit, and sat back down with perfect posture.

But no. It's a fuckin' brain tumor. Let's just spend a zillion dollars and freak you the fuck out in the meantime, for no good reason.



Oh, and by the way, that MRI they wanted me to have? It was scheduled two months out. If I really had a brain tumor, two months might be all I had. Then, on the day of the MRI, I got a call from Kaiser asking to reschedule me as the MRI guy called in sick that day. They wanted to schedule me another two months out.

Sure. I'll get back to ya. If I'm alive then.

Bye, Felicia.


I don't know if this private health insurance scheme will work, but I hope it does. There are all kinds of "alternative" medical treatments that work perfectly well, but Modern Medicine and Big Insurance won't recognize or research them because they don't have/can't get the patent. Just ask Charlotte Figi.
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Old 02-02-2018, 05:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DanaC View Post
Also, very difficult to distinguish between an innocuous flu and the beginnings of sepsis at the best of times - teladoc I suspect would make for more misses.

The news often has examples of the times doctors missed sepsis when someone presented with flu-like symptoms but how about those people who present with severe flu and whose lives are saved by an observant emergency room doctor or nurse who recognises sepsis?

It's such a difficult thing to spot and it's one of the biggest killers.

That's the trouble with 'routine' illnesses - they're the ones schemes like this focus on as low hanging fruit but the early symptoms of a number of very serious illnesses are all but identical to the symptoms of routine illnesses.

That kind of technology can play a really important role in getting medical diagnoses to people who are unable to access healthcare providers directly - or to make follow-up care and advice easier and less reliant on one to one appointments - but there are serious dangers in using it to cut down the costs of medical attention.
On the other hand . . .

How well I remember the early diagnoses I received from Kaiser doctors in response to my complaints about a severe pinched nerve problem (shitty work space design, shitty chair, etc.). First, they suggested my numb/tingling arms and legs might be the onset of MS. Two weeks later, they thought maybe I had a brain tumor, and scheduled an MRI.

In the gap between Kaiser visits, I found an incredible chiropractor and began a series of visits that had instant positive effects. Had to pay out of pocket (Kaiser didn't believe in chiropractic back then), and it took several months and lots of visits, but the man fixed me.

"Modern medicine" (also known as "Cut it out or drug it into submission), is all too ready to jump to ridiculous conclusions and order absurdly expensive drugs, tests, or procedures to support their insurance company and Big Pharma overlords. I knew the tingling/numbness were the result of a pinched nerve in my neck. I told the doctors that the numbness/tingling disappeared whenever I stood up, stretched a bit, and sat back down with perfect posture.

But no. It's a fuckin' brain tumor. Let's just spend a zillion dollars and freak you the fuck out in the meantime, for no good reason.



Oh, and by the way, that MRI they wanted me to have? It was scheduled two months out. If I really had a brain tumor, two months might be all I had. Then, on the day of the MRI, I got a call from Kaiser asking to reschedule me as the MRI guy called in sick that day. They wanted to schedule me another two months out.

Sure. I'll get back to ya. If I'm alive then.

Bye, Felicia.


I don't know if this private health insurance scheme will work, but I hope it does. There are all kinds of "alternative" medical treatments that work perfectly well, but Modern Medicine, Big Pharma, and Big Insurance won't recognize or research them because they don't have/can't get the patent. Just ask Charlotte Figi.

Presumably, a private health insurer would investigate and utilize ALL forms of treatment that offer results, not just the restriced list of treatments that are patented, ridiculously expensive profit-makers.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:25 PM   #12
xoxoxoBruce
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Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
In the gap between Kaiser visits, I found an incredible chiropractor and began a series of visits that had instant positive effects. Had to pay out of pocket (Kaiser didn't believe in chiropractic back then), and it took several months and lots of visits, but the man fixed me.
I've had a lot of experience with chiropractors. Some of them were charlatans, some didn't have a clue beyond your ability to pay, but the ones that graduated from the Palmer school were a godsend.

There was no bullshit like heatlamps, vibrators, multiple x-rays, just the differential thermometer up the spine and manipulation of the skeleton. Those guys improved my quality of life 1000 fold from when I was 18 on.
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Old 02-03-2018, 04:36 PM   #13
Glinda
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
I've had a lot of experience with chiropractors. Some of them were charlatans, some didn't have a clue beyond your ability to pay, but the ones that graduated from the Palmer school were a godsend.

There was no bullshit like heatlamps, vibrators, multiple x-rays, just the differential thermometer up the spine and manipulation of the skeleton. Those guys improved my quality of life 1000 fold from when I was 18 on.
Exactly!

I came across some awful chiropractors in the past as well, which is why I feel so fortunate to have found the Palmer School doctor that fixed me. And years later, I found another great Palmer School chiropractor who actually knew my previous doctor.
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